Is There Anything To Gain Arguing With Libs

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Posted by Sgt Bilko
  14,563 01 Mar 2016, 4:43 pm

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GeorgeWashington » 01 Mar 2016 7:41 am wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=35ORuXR6dO4

Why do you keep beating a dead horse??

Where is the verse where God states that the Israelites are no longer the chosen people!!! Do not bother with the path to salvation!! Before Christ there were many of them following other Gods!! Same thing!!
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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,578 02 Mar 2016, 11:36 am

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Sgt Bilko » 01 Mar 2016 3:43 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 01 Mar 2016 7:41 am wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=35ORuXR6dO4

Why do you keep beating a dead horse??

Where is the verse where God states that the Israelites are no longer the chosen people!!! Do not bother with the path to salvation!! Before Christ there were many of them following other Gods!! Same thing!!


You are making the claim that the Jews in Israel today are the chosen people. You must support your claim with a biblical reference before I can rebut it.

Please provide the verse you use to support your claim that Jews in Israel are the "chosen people."
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Posted by Sgt Bilko
  14,563 02 Mar 2016, 3:37 pm

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GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 10:36 am wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 01 Mar 2016 3:43 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 01 Mar 2016 7:41 am wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=35ORuXR6dO4

Why do you keep beating a dead horse??

Where is the verse where God states that the Israelites are no longer the chosen people!!! Do not bother with the path to salvation!! Before Christ there were many of them following other Gods!! Same thing!!


You are making the claim that the Jews in Israel today are the chosen people. You must support your claim with a biblical reference before I can rebut it.

Please provide the verse you use to support your claim that Jews in Israel are the "chosen people."

Israelites were the chosen people because of the covenant that God created with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Are you going to refute that? Genesis 17 states that the covenant is everlasting.

It was prophesied that the Jews would be dispersed but go back to Israel as a nation once again. That was fulfilled in 1947. Are you going to refute that? What is different Today than 1947?

Are you proclaiming that God who knows the end from the beginning used everlasting incorrectly aka lied? Jews still have the ceremonial circumcision at 8 days. That is the sign of the everlasting covenant!
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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,578 02 Mar 2016, 4:26 pm

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Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 2:37 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 10:36 am wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 01 Mar 2016 3:43 pm wrote:
Why do you keep beating a dead horse??

Where is the verse where God states that the Israelites are no longer the chosen people!!! Do not bother with the path to salvation!! Before Christ there were many of them following other Gods!! Same thing!!


You are making the claim that the Jews in Israel today are the chosen people. You must support your claim with a biblical reference before I can rebut it.

Please provide the verse you use to support your claim that Jews in Israel are the "chosen people."

Israelites were the chosen people because of the covenant that God created with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Are you going to refute that? Genesis 17 states that the covenant is everlasting.

It was prophesied that the Jews would be dispersed but go back to Israel as a nation once again. That was fulfilled in 1947. Are you going to refute that? What is different Today than 1947?

Are you proclaiming that God who knows the end from the beginning used everlasting incorrectly aka lied? Jews still have the ceremonial circumcision at 8 days. That is the sign of the everlasting covenant!


I've already refuted your claim that gen 17 applies to the inhabitants of modern day Israel

GeorgeWashington » 28 Feb 2016 11:02 am wrote:

Gal 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Gal 6
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Rom 9
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rev 2
8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 3
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Christ is the seed.. The covenant is with Abraham and his seed - Christ. Not with Abraham and his descendents that deny Christ and blasphemy His holy name as the Jews of Israel today do.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
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Posted by Sgt Bilko
  14,563 02 Mar 2016, 4:54 pm

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GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 3:26 pm wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 2:37 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 10:36 am wrote:

You are making the claim that the Jews in Israel today are the chosen people. You must support your claim with a biblical reference before I can rebut it.

Please provide the verse you use to support your claim that Jews in Israel are the "chosen people."

Israelites were the chosen people because of the covenant that God created with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Are you going to refute that? Genesis 17 states that the covenant is everlasting.

It was prophesied that the Jews would be dispersed but go back to Israel as a nation once again. That was fulfilled in 1947. Are you going to refute that? What is different Today than 1947?

Are you proclaiming that God who knows the end from the beginning used everlasting incorrectly aka lied? Jews still have the ceremonial circumcision at 8 days. That is the sign of the everlasting covenant!


I've already refuted your claim that gen 17 applies to the inhabitants of modern day Israel

GeorgeWashington » 28 Feb 2016 11:02 am wrote:

Gal 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Gal 6
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Rom 9
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rev 2
8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 3
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Christ is the seed.. The covenant is with Abraham and his seed - Christ. Not with Abraham and his descendents that deny Christ and blasphemy His holy name as the Jews of Israel today do.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

You do not refute Genesis 17. Did God lie? There were no conditions placed in that covenant to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You are trying to change the covenant to them. Everlasting becomes term limited. How without calling God a liar??? As Christians we are grafted into that existing covenant not replacing it!!!
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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,578 02 Mar 2016, 5:14 pm

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Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 3:54 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 3:26 pm wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 2:37 pm wrote:
Israelites were the chosen people because of the covenant that God created with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Are you going to refute that? Genesis 17 states that the covenant is everlasting.

It was prophesied that the Jews would be dispersed but go back to Israel as a nation once again. That was fulfilled in 1947. Are you going to refute that? What is different Today than 1947?

Are you proclaiming that God who knows the end from the beginning used everlasting incorrectly aka lied? Jews still have the ceremonial circumcision at 8 days. That is the sign of the everlasting covenant!


I've already refuted your claim that gen 17 applies to the inhabitants of modern day Israel

GeorgeWashington » 28 Feb 2016 11:02 am wrote:

Gal 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Gal 6
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Rom 9
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rev 2
8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 3
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Christ is the seed.. The covenant is with Abraham and his seed - Christ. Not with Abraham and his descendents that deny Christ and blasphemy His holy name as the Jews of Israel today do.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

You do not refute Genesis 7. Did God lie? There were no conditions placed in that covenant to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You are trying to change the covenant to them. Everlasting becomes term limited. How without calling God a liar??? As Christians we are grafted into that existing covenant not replacing it!!!


The covenant is with the seed. If Christ isn't seed, who is?

We are grafted in, but the Jews have been broken off because of their unbelief.


Romans 11

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

because of unbelief they were broken off - if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

The Jews have chosen to not participate in the covenant. If they choose to believe in the Seed they shall be grafted back in. If they were heirs of the promise, there would be no need to graft them back in.
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Posted by Sgt Bilko
  14,563 02 Mar 2016, 6:45 pm

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GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 4:14 pm wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 3:54 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 3:26 pm wrote:

I've already refuted your claim that gen 17 applies to the inhabitants of modern day Israel

Christ is the seed.. The covenant is with Abraham and his seed - Christ. Not with Abraham and his descendents that deny Christ and blasphemy His holy name as the Jews of Israel today do.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

You do not refute Genesis 7. Did God lie? There were no conditions placed in that covenant to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You are trying to change the covenant to them. Everlasting becomes term limited. How without calling God a liar??? As Christians we are grafted into that existing covenant not replacing it!!!


The covenant is with the seed. If Christ isn't seed, who is?

We are grafted in, but the Jews have been broken off because of their unbelief.

Romans 11

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

because of unbelief they were broken off - if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

The Jews have chosen to not participate in the covenant. If they choose to believe in the Seed they shall be grafted back in. If they were heirs of the promise, there would be no need to graft them back in.

Where in Genesis 17 does the covenant claim any actions by the descendents of Jacob can break the everlasting covenant?? This is the flaw in your argument!!! You claim that everlasting is a lie that God who knows the end from the beginning made!!! I totally disagree that He lied!!!

Allah lies but not God!!!!
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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,578 02 Mar 2016, 6:51 pm

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Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 5:45 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 4:14 pm wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 3:54 pm wrote:
You do not refute Genesis 7. Did God lie? There were no conditions placed in that covenant to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You are trying to change the covenant to them. Everlasting becomes term limited. How without calling God a liar??? As Christians we are grafted into that existing covenant not replacing it!!!


The covenant is with the seed. If Christ isn't seed, who is?

We are grafted in, but the Jews have been broken off because of their unbelief.

Romans 11

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

because of unbelief they were broken off - if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

The Jews have chosen to not participate in the covenant. If they choose to believe in the Seed they shall be grafted back in. If they were heirs of the promise, there would be no need to graft them back in.

Where in Genesis 17 does the covenant claim any actions by the descendents of Jacob can break the everlasting covenant?? This is the flaw in your argument!!! You claim that everlasting is a lie that God who knows the end from the beginning made!!! I totally disagree that He lied!!!

Allah lies but not God!!!!


Quote Genesis 17 where it says the covenant includes descendents of Jacob.
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Posted by Sgt Bilko
  14,563 02 Mar 2016, 7:14 pm

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GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 5:51 pm wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 5:45 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 4:14 pm wrote:

The covenant is with the seed. If Christ isn't seed, who is?

We are grafted in, but the Jews have been broken off because of their unbelief.

Romans 11

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

because of unbelief they were broken off - if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

The Jews have chosen to not participate in the covenant. If they choose to believe in the Seed they shall be grafted back in. If they were heirs of the promise, there would be no need to graft them back in.

Where in Genesis 17 does the covenant claim any actions by the descendents of Jacob can break the everlasting covenant?? This is the flaw in your argument!!! You claim that everlasting is a lie that God who knows the end from the beginning made!!! I totally disagree that He lied!!!

Allah lies but not God!!!!


Quote Genesis 17 where it says the covenant includes descendents of Jacob.

The covenant was given to Abraham and Issac. In Genesis 27 by trickery Jacob got the first born blessing which included the covenant. Don't you remember this Story? Esau was very bitter and Jacob fled for his life. This is why the phrase the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob!! The descendents of Jacob aka Israel all became the chosen people!! Everlasting means NO END. He would chastise them but never reject them. That was His promise!!

Why do you keep rejecting what God said about His Chosen people???
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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,578 02 Mar 2016, 7:27 pm

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Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 6:14 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 5:51 pm wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 5:45 pm wrote:
Where in Genesis 17 does the covenant claim any actions by the descendents of Jacob can break the everlasting covenant?? This is the flaw in your argument!!! You claim that everlasting is a lie that God who knows the end from the beginning made!!! I totally disagree that He lied!!!

Allah lies but not God!!!!


Quote Genesis 17 where it says the covenant includes descendents of Jacob.

The covenant was given to Abraham and Issac. In Genesis 27 by trickery Jacob got the first born blessing which included the covenant. Don't you remember this Story? Esau was very bitter and Jacob fled for his life. This is why the phrase the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob!! The descendents of Jacob aka Israel all became the chosen people!! Everlasting means NO END. He would chastise them but never reject them. That was His promise!!

Why do you keep rejecting what God said about His Chosen people???


I have shown you that Paul, in the epistle to the Romans Ch 11, says that Jews are not part of the covenant because of their unbelief. .

Now, please quote the scripture that says the Jews inhabiting Israel today are the chosen people or quote the scripture that says the descendents of Jacob are the chosen people.
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Posted by Sgt Bilko
  14,563 02 Mar 2016, 8:02 pm

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GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 6:27 pm wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 6:14 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 5:51 pm wrote:

Quote Genesis 17 where it says the covenant includes descendents of Jacob.

The covenant was given to Abraham and Issac. In Genesis 27 by trickery Jacob got the first born blessing which included the covenant. Don't you remember this Story? Esau was very bitter and Jacob fled for his life. This is why the phrase the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob!! The descendents of Jacob aka Israel all became the chosen people!! Everlasting means NO END. He would chastise them but never reject them. That was His promise!!

Why do you keep rejecting what God said about His Chosen people???


I have shown you that Paul, in the epistle to the Romans Ch 11, says that Jews are not part of the covenant because of their unbelief. .

Now, please quote the scripture that says the Jews inhabiting Israel today are the chosen people or quote the scripture that says the descendents of Jacob are the chosen people.

You stopped too soon in Romans 11.

25 I do not want you, believers, to be unaware of this mystery [God’s previously hidden plan]—so that you will not be wise in your own opinion—that a partial hardening has [temporarily] happened to Israel [to last] until the full number of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so [at that time] all Israel [that is, all Jews who have a personal faith in Jesus as Messiah] will be saved; just as it is written [in Scripture],

“The Deliverer (Messiah) will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27
“This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 From the standpoint of the gospel, the Jews [at present] are enemies [of God] for your sake [which is for your benefit], but from the standpoint of God’s choice [of the Jews as His people], they are still loved by Him for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable [for He does not withdraw what He has given, nor does He change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call]. 30 Just as you once were disobedient and failed to listen to God, but have now obtained mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient so that they too may one day receive mercy because of the mercy shown to you. 32 For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all [Jew and Gentile alike].


As you were saying!!!
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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,578 03 Mar 2016, 7:19 am

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Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 7:02 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 6:27 pm wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 6:14 pm wrote:
The covenant was given to Abraham and Issac. In Genesis 27 by trickery Jacob got the first born blessing which included the covenant. Don't you remember this Story? Esau was very bitter and Jacob fled for his life. This is why the phrase the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob!! The descendents of Jacob aka Israel all became the chosen people!! Everlasting means NO END. He would chastise them but never reject them. That was His promise!!

Why do you keep rejecting what God said about His Chosen people???


I have shown you that Paul, in the epistle to the Romans Ch 11, says that Jews are not part of the covenant because of their unbelief. .

Now, please quote the scripture that says the Jews inhabiting Israel today are the chosen people or quote the scripture that says the descendents of Jacob are the chosen people.

You stopped too soon in Romans 11.

25 I do not want you, believers, to be unaware of this mystery [God’s previously hidden plan]—so that you will not be wise in your own opinion—that a partial hardening has [temporarily] happened to Israel [to last] until the full number of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so [at that time] all Israel [that is, all Jews who have a personal faith in Jesus as Messiah] will be saved; just as it is written [in Scripture],

“The Deliverer (Messiah) will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27
“This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 From the standpoint of the gospel, the Jews [at present] are enemies [of God] for your sake [which is for your benefit], but from the standpoint of God’s choice [of the Jews as His people], they are still loved by Him for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable [for He does not withdraw what He has given, nor does He change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call]. 30 Just as you once were disobedient and failed to listen to God, but have now obtained mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient so that they too may one day receive mercy because of the mercy shown to you. 32 For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all [Jew and Gentile alike].


As you were saying!!!


The scripture you quoted says Jews are enemies of God, but they will be received when they return to the faith.

Christians are the Chosen People/Israel of God. For Jews to participate in the covenant that they have abandoned and be part of the chosen, they must believe in Christ.

Jesus says there are Jews that abide in Him, descendents of Abraham, and there are Jews that Jesus' word has no place in, children of the devil.

John 8

37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Jews that do not accept Christ are not part of the covenant.

In God's eye, there is no Jew - there is only those that believe in Christ.

Gal 3

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Followers of Christ are the chosen people / Israel of God..

Gal 6

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.


Now, please quote the scripture that says the Jews inhabiting Israel today are the chosen people or quote the scripture that says the descendents of Jacob are the chosen people.
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Posted by Sgt Bilko
  14,563 03 Mar 2016, 11:53 am

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GeorgeWashington » 03 Mar 2016 6:19 am wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 7:02 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 02 Mar 2016 6:27 pm wrote:

I have shown you that Paul, in the epistle to the Romans Ch 11, says that Jews are not part of the covenant because of their unbelief. .

Now, please quote the scripture that says the Jews inhabiting Israel today are the chosen people or quote the scripture that says the descendents of Jacob are the chosen people.

You stopped too soon in Romans 11.

25 I do not want you, believers, to be unaware of this mystery [God’s previously hidden plan]—so that you will not be wise in your own opinion—that a partial hardening has [temporarily] happened to Israel [to last] until the full number of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so [at that time] all Israel [that is, all Jews who have a personal faith in Jesus as Messiah] will be saved; just as it is written [in Scripture],

“The Deliverer (Messiah) will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27
“This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 From the standpoint of the gospel, the Jews [at present] are enemies [of God] for your sake [which is for your benefit], but from the standpoint of God’s choice [of the Jews as His people], they are still loved by Him for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable [for He does not withdraw what He has given, nor does He change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call]. 30 Just as you once were disobedient and failed to listen to God, but have now obtained mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient so that they too may one day receive mercy because of the mercy shown to you. 32 For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all [Jew and Gentile alike].


As you were saying!!!


The scripture you quoted says Jews are enemies of God. It does not say they are the chosen people or the Israel of God.

Christians are the Chosen People/Israel of God. For Jews to participate in the covenant that they have abandoned and be part of the chosen, they must believe in Christ.

Jesus says there are Jews that abide in Him, descendents of Abraham, and there are Jews that Jesus' word has no place in, children of the devil.

John 8

37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Jews that do not accept Christ are not part of the covenant.

In God's eye, there is no Jew - there is only those that believe in Christ.

Gal 3

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Followers of Christ are the chosen people / Israel of God..

Gal 6

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.


Now, please quote the scripture that says the Jews inhabiting Israel today are the chosen people or quote the scripture that says the descendents of Jacob are the chosen people.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable [ for He does not withdraw what He has given, nor does He change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call].
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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,578 03 Mar 2016, 11:57 am

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Sgt Bilko » 03 Mar 2016 10:53 am wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 03 Mar 2016 6:19 am wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 02 Mar 2016 7:02 pm wrote:
You stopped too soon in Romans 11.

25 I do not want you, believers, to be unaware of this mystery [God’s previously hidden plan]—so that you will not be wise in your own opinion—that a partial hardening has [temporarily] happened to Israel [to last] until the full number of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so [at that time] all Israel [that is, all Jews who have a personal faith in Jesus as Messiah] will be saved; just as it is written [in Scripture],

“The Deliverer (Messiah) will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27
“This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 From the standpoint of the gospel, the Jews [at present] are enemies [of God] for your sake [which is for your benefit], but from the standpoint of God’s choice [of the Jews as His people], they are still loved by Him for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable [for He does not withdraw what He has given, nor does He change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call]. 30 Just as you once were disobedient and failed to listen to God, but have now obtained mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient so that they too may one day receive mercy because of the mercy shown to you. 32 For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all [Jew and Gentile alike].


As you were saying!!!


The scripture you quoted says Jews are enemies of God. It does not say they are the chosen people or the Israel of God.

Christians are the Chosen People/Israel of God. For Jews to participate in the covenant that they have abandoned and be part of the chosen, they must believe in Christ.

Jesus says there are Jews that abide in Him, descendents of Abraham, and there are Jews that Jesus' word has no place in, children of the devil.

John 8

37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Jews that do not accept Christ are not part of the covenant.

In God's eye, there is no Jew - there is only those that believe in Christ.

Gal 3

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Followers of Christ are the chosen people / Israel of God..

Gal 6

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.


Now, please quote the scripture that says the Jews inhabiting Israel today are the chosen people or quote the scripture that says the descendents of Jacob are the chosen people.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable [ for He does not withdraw what He has given, nor does He change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call].


1. The bracketed text is not scripture. It is commentary added to scripture. We should be very careful not to add or remove anything from te Word.

2. The Jews will be received when they return to the faith.

3. If a Jew does not follow Christ, he has not been called, therefore there is no calling that can be revoked.

4. The gift is Christ which counters the trespass of Adam.
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Posted by Sgt Bilko
  14,563 03 Mar 2016, 12:10 pm

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God knows the end from the beginning. God is immutable (unchanging). Therefore when God made that everlasting covenant He knew the future of today. With this in mind why did he make it everlasting? Why did he not set conditions?

Why are you changing the characteristics of God?
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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,578 03 Mar 2016, 1:03 pm

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Sgt Bilko » 03 Mar 2016 11:10 am wrote:
God knows the end from the beginning. God is immutable (unchanging). Therefore when God made that everlasting covenant He knew the future of today. With this in mind why did he make it everlasting? Why did he not set conditions?

Why are you changing the characteristics of God?


I'm not arguing that God changed.

I am arguing that the everlasting covenant was not made with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The everlasting covenant was made with Abraham and his seed.

Gen 17
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.


Paul explains in Galatians that the everlasting covenant was not made with the Jews as you claim. It was made with the seed.

Gal 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Please quote the scripture that says the Jews in Israel today are part of the everlasting covenant made with Abraham.
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Posted by Sgt Bilko
  14,563 03 Mar 2016, 1:40 pm

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GeorgeWashington » 03 Mar 2016 12:03 pm wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 03 Mar 2016 11:10 am wrote:
God knows the end from the beginning. God is immutable (unchanging). Therefore when God made that everlasting covenant He knew the future of today. With this in mind why did he make it everlasting? Why did he not set conditions?

Why are you changing the characteristics of God?


I'm not arguing that God changed.

I am arguing that the everlasting covenant was not made with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The everlasting covenant was made with Abraham and his seed.

Gen 17
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.


Paul explains in Galatians that the everlasting covenant was not made with the Jews as you claim. It was made with the seed.

Gal 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Please quote the scripture that says the Jews in Israel today are part of the everlasting covenant made with Abraham.

The everlasting covenant was made with Abraham and Isaac. Ishmael was sent away and not part of the covenant. That is in Genesis 17. In Genesis 27 Jacob gets the birthright by trickery from Isaac. God continued the process with Jacob and changed his name to Israel. To Israel's progeny was the everlasting covenant given. You keep twisting things around and try to wiggle out of what God proclaimed in this covenant. By doing so you reject what God proclaimed in this everlasting covenant with no restrictions. Why do you keep saying God did not mean what He said?? If that is the case then throw away the Bible since God is like Allah with the use of abrogation. Allah changes his mind by having later spoken verses replace earlier spoken ones. This is what you are proclaiming!! Since when was the kingdom of Judah written out of the Covenant. Jesus was a Jew descended from David. David was part of the covenant!!!

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid applies here. You use lots of verses applying to salvation but not the Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob Covenant.
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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,578 03 Mar 2016, 3:00 pm

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St. Paul concludes that Israel’s failure as a people to accept the Christ did not imply that God had made a mistake in choosing them nor did it mean that God’s gifts to them were a sham. His singular blessings to Israel had not been devalued by its inability as a nation to prove worthy of them. Why? Because St. Paul says “they are not all Israel who are Israel.” Or perhaps, it would be better to say that there are really two Israels. On the one hand, there is the Israel of the flesh, those who are merely the physical progeny of Abraham, Israelites in a purely ethnic sense, but according to St. Paul, these are not these chosen nation of God. Only those who are children of the promise can claim to be the true Israel. What is the promise of which the apostle speaks? It is the assurance of reconciliation with God. It is the promise of oneness with the divine, of direct participation in the life of God. This is the joy Abraham sought. It was the living hope of Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and the prophets. Through the legacy of Israel that hope came to life in the incarnate son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/pi ... e_-_part_1

What we have learned so far from the apostle’s analysis of Israel’s experience is that ethnic identity does not secure salvation. The only true Israelites are those who embrace God’s promise of salvation, the promise that is fulfilled in Christ. By this act, they become genuine children of Abraham.

It was the failure of the majority of Israelites to exercise this active faith of their father Abraham which led to their rejection of Christ, making their calling as God’s chosen people to be, for them, of no effect. In Romans 11:20, the apostle describes those Israelites who refuse to receive Christ as branches who are broken off from the vine of the chosen. St. Paul does not say that they were broken off as a result of some predestined compelling decision of God, he says they were cut off because of their unbelief. Now, one committed to the doctrine of predestination may insist that these Israelites failed to believe because God ordained that they not believe. From before eternity, God consigned these unfortunate ones to inescapable unbelief, a fate from which they could never by any means be redeemed. And they would point to the next section of Romans 9:10-13 as evidence for their position.


http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/pi ... e_-_part_2
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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,578 03 Mar 2016, 3:07 pm

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Sgt Bilko » 03 Mar 2016 12:40 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 03 Mar 2016 12:03 pm wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 03 Mar 2016 11:10 am wrote:
God knows the end from the beginning. God is immutable (unchanging). Therefore when God made that everlasting covenant He knew the future of today. With this in mind why did he make it everlasting? Why did he not set conditions?

Why are you changing the characteristics of God?


I'm not arguing that God changed.

I am arguing that the everlasting covenant was not made with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The everlasting covenant was made with Abraham and his seed.

Gen 17
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.


Paul explains in Galatians that the everlasting covenant was not made with the Jews as you claim. It was made with the seed.

Gal 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Please quote the scripture that says the Jews in Israel today are part of the everlasting covenant made with Abraham.

The everlasting covenant was made with Abraham and Isaac. Ishmael was sent away and not part of the covenant. That is in Genesis 17. In Genesis 27 Jacob gets the birthright by trickery from Isaac. God continued the process with Jacob and changed his name to Israel. To Israel's progeny was the everlasting covenant given. You keep twisting things around and try to wiggle out of what God proclaimed in this covenant. By doing so you reject what God proclaimed in this everlasting covenant with no restrictions. Why do you keep saying God did not mean what He said?? If that is the case then throw away the Bible since God is like Allah with the use of abrogation. Allah changes his mind by having later spoken verses replace earlier spoken ones. This is what you are proclaiming!!


I am not twisting or rejecting anything.

I am keeping with the Christian teachings of the ancient church.

You are proclaiming Darby Dispensationalism popularized by Scofield in the early 1900s. What you believe is a new teaching. Do you expect me to believe that Christians got it wrong for 1900 years and only now some are getting it right?

If scripture says what you say it does, why won't you quote it?
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Posted by Sgt Bilko
  14,563 03 Mar 2016, 8:06 pm

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GeorgeWashington » 03 Mar 2016 2:07 pm wrote:
Sgt Bilko » 03 Mar 2016 12:40 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 03 Mar 2016 12:03 pm wrote:

I'm not arguing that God changed.

I am arguing that the everlasting covenant was not made with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The everlasting covenant was made with Abraham and his seed.

Gen 17
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.


Paul explains in Galatians that the everlasting covenant was not made with the Jews as you claim. It was made with the seed.

Gal 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Please quote the scripture that says the Jews in Israel today are part of the everlasting covenant made with Abraham.

The everlasting covenant was made with Abraham and Isaac. Ishmael was sent away and not part of the covenant. That is in Genesis 17. In Genesis 27 Jacob gets the birthright by trickery from Isaac. God continued the process with Jacob and changed his name to Israel. To Israel's progeny was the everlasting covenant given. You keep twisting things around and try to wiggle out of what God proclaimed in this covenant. By doing so you reject what God proclaimed in this everlasting covenant with no restrictions. Why do you keep saying God did not mean what He said?? If that is the case then throw away the Bible since God is like Allah with the use of abrogation. Allah changes his mind by having later spoken verses replace earlier spoken ones. This is what you are proclaiming!!


I am not twisting or rejecting anything.

I am keeping with the Christian teachings of the ancient church.

You are proclaiming Darby Dispensationalism popularized by Scofield in the early 1900s. What you believe is a new teaching. Do you expect me to believe that Christians got it wrong for 1900 years and only now some are getting it right?

If scripture says what you say it does, why won't you quote it?

Did I not refer to Genesis 17 and 27!!! To Jacob aka Israel the EVERLASTING covenant was made to his descendents. Circumcision is the mark of the covenant. You tried to claim the first and last born sons Israel were not included. Israel was also given the promised land which ended up being called Israel. Do you deny the EVERLASTING covenant to Israel and the addition of the promised land? God said EVERLASTING not me. The covenant had NO conditions.

Therefore either God changed his mind or you are wrong. This is a simple issue. Show the conditions to break the covenant in those two chapters. I have never found any. When God made this covenant He knew the future but made it anyway. KISS!

My issue is if this promise of God is broken then what promise of God can we trust??
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