Capital punishment vs. abortion - Conservatives?

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Posted by Obummerstinks
  10,920 29 Dec 2013, 4:31 pm

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Some personal thoughts.

I abhor abortion in almost all cases. Mothers life, rape are about the only exceptions. Fairly in line with conservatism.

I am also against capital punishment, unless there's more than one direct eye witness or some clear video proof.


I used to be a pro capital punishment guy years ago, but as modern tools have become available and those imprisoned or killed have been cleared, my position on cap punishment weakened. As I've gotten older, my disgust in abortion has grown. I'm at a point now where I view them both as murder (with the exception of the couple of exclusions listed).

My question to my conservatives friends is, given that each is taking a life - how do you justify being for one and against the other - if that is your position.

Thoughts?
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Posted by Hat_Creek
  1,292 29 Dec 2013, 5:12 pm

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I've thought about this off and on over the years as I was once a supporter of capital punishment.
But as the years have passed and I've taken a harder stance against abortion, I can't justify having
a strong opinion on one without considering the other. To do so would be blatant hypocrisy, a
character trait of libturds and progturds which I don't want to willingly, knowingly, be associated with.
The only time I may agree capital punishment would be fitting, the prison population usually handles
these their own way. That is if the crime wasn't sanctioned by inmate folks in the first place. Even then,
there is always another side, and inmates can't typically escape them in the long run. I don't advocate
the inmate justice system either, but it is what it is.................
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Posted by Southern indep
  12,059 29 May 2014, 12:22 am

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I wouldn't trust two witnesses over hard factual evidence anyway dealing with capital punishment.

I can't phantom putting abortion into the same category of capital punishment for the reason below...

Abortion is denying a life to merely an existence. We can't imagine not existing because to do so we would have to exist. I can't think of anything more unjust.

Usually when the death sentence is given as a punishment, it is because that person being executed denied someone else their life. If you can take someone's life not being in self defense you should suffer the same fate rather quickly. Furthermore I don't believe sitting on death row for twenty years serves the victim justice neither.

I do not feel this way because I don't value life...but the fact of someone purposely cutting another person's liFe short is just a unimaginable atrocity.
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Posted by Cannonpointer
  20,515 30 Nov 2014, 1:21 pm

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Southern indep » 29 May 2014 12:22 am wrote:
I wouldn't trust two witnesses over hard factual evidence anyway dealing with capital punishment.

I can't fathom putting abortion into the same category of capital punishment for the reason below...

Abortion is denying a life to merely an existence. We can't imagine not existing because to do so we would have to exist. I can't think of anything more unjust.

Usually when the death sentence is given as a punishment, it is because that person being executed denied someone else their life. If you can take someone's life not being in self defense you should suffer the same fate rather quickly. Furthermore I don't believe sitting on death row for twenty years serves the victim justice neither.

I do not feel this way because I don't value life...but the fact of someone purposely cutting another person's liFe short is just a unimaginable atrocity.



I don't know how many fetuses have been killed, but it's in the millions. Has anyone ever thought to question whether maybe some of these fetuses are doing something to bring it on themselves?
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Posted by Southern indep
  12,059 01 Dec 2014, 10:19 am

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Cannonpointer » 30 Nov 2014 12:21 pm wrote:
Southern indep » 29 May 2014 12:22 am wrote:
I wouldn't trust two witnesses over hard factual evidence anyway dealing with capital punishment.

I can't fathom putting abortion into the same category of capital punishment for the reason below...

Abortion is denying a life to merely an existence. We can't imagine not existing because to do so we would have to exist. I can't think of anything more unjust.

Usually when the death sentence is given as a punishment, it is because that person being executed denied someone else their life. If you can take someone's life not being in self defense you should suffer the same fate rather quickly. Furthermore I don't believe sitting on death row for twenty years serves the victim justice neither.

I do not feel this way because I don't value life...but the fact of someone purposely cutting another person's liFe short is just a unimaginable atrocity.


I don't know how many fetuses have been killed, but it's in the millions. Has anyone ever thought to question whether maybe some of these fetuses are doing something to bring it on themselves?

Same reason millions of black children are raised in the ghetto. They were conceived by the wrong parents.
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Posted by Cannonpointer
  20,515 02 Dec 2014, 1:45 am

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Southern indep » 01 Dec 2014 9:19 am wrote:
Same reason millions of black children are raised in the ghetto. They were conceived by the wrong parents.


Well, there it is, then. Those aborted feti should have prepared better - just as ghetto babies should have done.Conjobs adore the very amniotic fluid those little nigger-babies-in-the-making swim in. But they hate those feti's mothers, and once those little feti metamorphose into little nigger babies, oh, the conjobs DO hate their little nauga hides.

In the end, it's a contest of conflicting rights - one of the few such contests that can't be fixed by competent zoning laws. Little nigger babies have a right to be born and experience being permanently unemployed, being beat down by cops, being stuck in prison for slinging dope when that's the actual position that society's HR Dept has reserved for them. But their mamas also have rights - including control of their own bodies, according to the SCOTUS. I think this simple nursery song breaks the issue down into bite-sized chunks and makes the issue easier to grasp:

The itsy bitsy semen goes up the mama's spout,
And no more come the menses to flush the zygote out,
The zygote forms a fetus, which kicks and causes pain
And the abortion doctor does his thing and menses come again.

I do this little puppet show when I sing that to the children (or, "survivors," as I like to call them), but I can't really show you that on the interwebs.

By the way - as regards your previous post: Never having a chance to exist cannot be "unjust," because justice is a conceit of the living. One cannot be just OR unjust to something which has never existed. Nor can a non-entity be present to having been done an injustice. There is always the possibility that aborted feti had souls, of course - which presumably CAN comprehend injustice. If they do have souls, those souls come from SOMEWHERE. It's reasonable to assume they return thither, not terribly worse off for having stood in line for a ride that their ticket wasn't printed for. Better luck on your next meatship, is what I would say to those souls. I'd have a soul tattoo: "Never trust a fetus." I mean, it's all goo goo gaa gaa 'til someone pulls the plug, am I right?

Being a fetus is a tough job - a job that only being a zygote will prepare you for. If the fetus has no soul, it cannot be done an injustice. If a soul DOES inhabit every fetus, those souls knew the risks going in. You don't hear THEM complaining.
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Posted by Endoscopy
  6,635 19 Jan 2015, 12:20 pm

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Obummerstinks » 29 Dec 2013 3:31 pm wrote:
Some personal thoughts.

I abhor abortion in almost all cases. Mothers life, rape are about the only exceptions. Fairly in line with conservatism.

I am also against capital punishment, unless there's more than one direct eye witness or some clear video proof.

I used to be a pro capital punishment guy years ago, but as modern tools have become available and those imprisoned or killed have been cleared, my position on cap punishment weakened. As I've gotten older, my disgust in abortion has grown. I'm at a point now where I view them both as murder (with the exception of the couple of exclusions listed).

My question to my conservatives friends is, given that each is taking a life - how do you justify being for one and against the other - if that is your position.

Thoughts?

It goes back to the Bible. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and a life for a life. In other words the punishment is to fit the crime. However I am with you partially. There has to be overwhelming forensic evidence to have an execution. Eye witnesses are notoriously fallible. 10 people witnessing something and you get 10 different accounts. The police have to live with trying to sort out this mess without video evidence.
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Posted by Endoscopy
  6,635 19 Jan 2015, 12:25 pm

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Southern indep » 01 Dec 2014 9:19 am wrote:
Cannonpointer » 30 Nov 2014 12:21 pm wrote:

I don't know how many fetuses have been killed, but it's in the millions. Has anyone ever thought to question whether maybe some of these fetuses are doing something to bring it on themselves?

Same reason millions of black children are raised in the ghetto. They were conceived by the wrong parents.

WE can thank the liberal laws passed and modified for the "War on Poverty". When that started the poor blacks were tight knit religious families. Today after the welfare under ADC to unwed mothers was ramped up and girls found this to be the easy way to have their own apartment and money without having the responsibility of having a job. We now have several generations of this and now 70% of black children are to unwed mothers.
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Posted by Castlefan15
  1 19 Mar 2015, 7:26 pm


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In my own opinion I truly believe abortion is murder. There is no doubt it my mind that life starts at conception not when a baby is born. Every human has rights and unborn babies have rights also. I completely disagree with a lot of the people in our society and age group very heavily on this fact but I will always stand resolute! I have stood outside abortion centers with my mom and quitely prayed the roseary minding our own business and doing no harm to others. I turn away for one second and my mom is being verbally abused by a lady who parked her car on the side of the street and got out just to yell at us. If you demand respect for your opions then why can't I have respect for mine?

On the topic of Capital punishment, I have a weird view of it. I believe that capital punishment is not justice but simply another dead body. And if that person is actually innocent I couldn't even fathom killing someone in such a way. I also feel however that there may be some people who pose such a great threat on society and the well being of others that I would feel more, I hate to say more comfortable, but yes more comfortable if they were no longer alive. For this to happen though i would have to feel like this person is completely out of the realm of helping but I do not know who could ever make such a dicision.

I guess I see them both as murder and would disagree with all cases of abortion and most cases of capital punishment.
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Posted by Cannonpointer
  20,515 28 Jan 2016, 2:02 pm

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Southern indep » 29 May 2014 12:22 am wrote:
I wouldn't trust two witnesses over hard factual evidence anyway dealing with capital punishment.

I can't phantom putting abortion into the same category of capital punishment for the reason below...

Abortion is denying a life to merely an existence. We can't imagine not existing because to do so we would have to exist. I can't think of anything more unjust.

Usually when the death sentence is given as a punishment, it is because that person being executed denied someone else their life. If you can take someone's life not being in self defense you should suffer the same fate rather quickly. Furthermore I don't believe sitting on death row for twenty years serves the victim justice neither.

I do not feel this way because I don't value life...but the fact of someone purposely cutting another person's liFe short is just a unimaginable atrocity.


So if a pregnant woman wants to take the life of a non-citizen, your consrvative values are against that.

If the state wants to take the life of a citizen, that represents conservative values.

That about right - give or take an i before e?
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Posted by Cannonpointer
  20,515 28 Jan 2016, 2:03 pm

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Southern indep » 01 Dec 2014 9:19 am wrote:
Same reason millions of black children are raised in the ghetto. They were conceived by the wrong parents.


That sounds JUST like the too bad, so sad I run about aborted babies.

How are we different, again?
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Posted by Southern indep
  12,059 31 Jan 2016, 7:13 am

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Cannonpointer » 28 Jan 2016 1:02 pm wrote:
Southern indep » 29 May 2014 12:22 am wrote:
I wouldn't trust two witnesses over hard factual evidence anyway dealing with capital punishment.

I can't phantom putting abortion into the same category of capital punishment for the reason below...

Abortion is denying a life to merely an existence. We can't imagine not existing because to do so we would have to exist. I can't think of anything more unjust.

Usually when the death sentence is given as a punishment, it is because that person being executed denied someone else their life. If you can take someone's life not being in self defense you should suffer the same fate rather quickly. Furthermore I don't believe sitting on death row for twenty years serves the victim justice neither.

I do not feel this way because I don't value life...but the fact of someone purposely cutting another person's liFe short is just a unimaginable atrocity.


So if a pregnant woman wants to take the life of a non-citizen, your consrvative values are against that.

If the state wants to take the life of a citizen, that represents conservative values.

That about right - give or take an i before e?


So a person that was convicted of murder "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another" a choice made by that person to end the life of another human being and you are really going to compare that too a fetuses' brain getting ice picked .?? As long as the person has had their day in court and some appeals, kill them... sorry but the victim deserves justice and a life sentence commuted because of over crowding or parole yea .. suck my ass .....
I upped the size of the key word in that statement .....,

do I disagree with all abortion .. no ...

You reap what you sow......
I know you nanny staters are always looking for an excuse , like their momma didn't love them, indoctrinated racism, my ancestor was a slave, they couldn't speak English , etc etc... but you know what? I don't have sympathy for murderers ....


May I ask why you value a murderer' life over the victim???
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Posted by Cannonpointer
  20,515 31 Jan 2016, 2:29 pm

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Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
So a person that was convicted of murder "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another" a choice made by that person to end the life of another human being and you are really going to compare that too a fetuses' brain getting ice picked .?? As long as the person has had their day in court and some appeals, kill them... sorry but the victim deserves justice and a life sentence commuted because of over crowding or parole yea .. suck my ass .....
I upped the size of the key word in that statement .....,

do I disagree with all abortion .. no ...

You reap what you sow......

You are arguing that I should trust the government to justly and appropriately kill its citizens. All good - that's neoconservatism 101, and everybody has to be something.

But if you're really a neocon, don't you owe the board some irony?

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
I know you nanny staters

There it is. Arguing for a super-powered nanny state, while calling me a nanny stater.

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
are always looking for an excuse , like their momma didn't love them, indoctrinated racism, my ancestor was a slave, they couldn't speak English , etc etc... but you know what? I don't have sympathy for murderers ....

The reason for life in prison is not to be nice to killers. The reason for life in prison is to leave a page marker where your mistake might have been. It's terrible to fuck up an innocent man's life for years on end. But we can make an approximation of amends monetarily, and give him his reputation back and give his suffering family their vindication and return to them their beloved.

By paying a wrongly convicted man for his time and vacating the charges and sending him home, we've done what we can to clean up the error against him and his family. You cannot give a man whose murder you cheered his life back. So every mistake the state makes is in permanent ink, under the dispensation for which you argue.

Which of us is assuming a flawed state? Which of us presuming a flawless state? Who is the nanny stater, Tater?

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
May I ask why you value a murderer' life over the victim???

You may, but the question will be falsely premised.
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Posted by Southern indep
  12,059 31 Jan 2016, 2:31 pm

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Cannonpointer » 31 Jan 2016 1:29 pm wrote:
Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
So a person that was convicted of murder "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another" a choice made by that person to end the life of another human being and you are really going to compare that too a fetuses' brain getting ice picked .?? As long as the person has had their day in court and some appeals, kill them... sorry but the victim deserves justice and a life sentence commuted because of over crowding or parole yea .. suck my ass .....
I upped the size of the key word in that statement .....,

do I disagree with all abortion .. no ...

You reap what you sow......

This guy^ is arguing that I should trust the government to justly and appropriately kill its citizens. All good - that's neoconservatism 101, and everybody has to be something.

But if he's really a neocon, doesn't he owe the board some irony?

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
I know you nanny staters

There it is. Arguing for a super-powered nanny state, while calling me a nanny stater.

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
are always looking for an excuse , like their momma didn't love them, indoctrinated racism, my ancestor was a slave, they couldn't speak English , etc etc... but you know what? I don't have sympathy for murderers ....

The reason for life in prison is not to be nice to killers. The reason for life in prison is to leave a page marker where your mistake might have been. It's terrible to fuck up an innocent man's life for years on end. But we can make an approximation of amends monetarily, and give him his reputation back and give his suffering family their vindication and return to them their beloved.

By paying a wrongly convicted man for his time and vacating the charges and sending him home, we've done what we can to clean up the error against him and his family. You cannot give a man whose murder you cheered his life back. So every mistake the state makes is in permanent ink, under the dispensation for which you argue.

Which of us is assuming a flawed state? Which of us presuming a flawless state? Who is the nanny stater, Tater?

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
May I ask why you value a murderer' life over the victim???

You may, but the question will be falsely premised.


And this guy above advocates for murderers of woman and children given a lite sentence to get out and become day care teachers....
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Posted by Cannonpointer
  20,515 31 Jan 2016, 2:33 pm

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Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 1:31 pm wrote:
And this guy above advocates for murderers of woman and children given a lite sentence to get out and become day care teachers....


That's it?

That's really weak.

You have fled the field. Defend your case for capital punishment against the withering truths I just laid down, or acknowledge your inability to do so.
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Posted by Southern indep
  12,059 31 Jan 2016, 2:36 pm

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Cannonpointer » 31 Jan 2016 1:29 pm wrote:
Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
So a person that was convicted of murder "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another" a choice made by that person to end the life of another human being and you are really going to compare that too a fetuses' brain getting ice picked .?? As long as the person has had their day in court and some appeals, kill them... sorry but the victim deserves justice and a life sentence commuted because of over crowding or parole yea .. suck my ass .....
I upped the size of the key word in that statement .....,

do I disagree with all abortion .. no ...

You reap what you sow......

You are arguing that I should trust the government to justly and appropriately kill its citizens. All good - that's neoconservatism 101, and everybody has to be something.

But if you're really a neocon, don't you owe the board some irony?

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
I know you nanny staters

There it is. Arguing for a super-powered nanny state, while calling me a nanny stater.

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
are always looking for an excuse , like their momma didn't love them, indoctrinated racism, my ancestor was a slave, they couldn't speak English , etc etc... but you know what? I don't have sympathy for murderers ....

The reason for life in prison is not to be nice to killers. The reason for life in prison is to leave a page marker where your mistake might have been. It's terrible to fuck up an innocent man's life for years on end. But we can make an approximation of amends monetarily, and give him his reputation back and give his suffering family their vindication and return to them their beloved.

By paying a wrongly convicted man for his time and vacating the charges and sending him home, we've done what we can to clean up the error against him and his family. You cannot give a man whose murder you cheered his life back. So every mistake the state makes is in permanent ink, under the dispensation for which you argue.

Which of us is assuming a flawed state? Which of us presuming a flawless state? Who is the nanny stater, Tater?

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
May I ask why you value a murderer' life over the victim???

You may, but the question will be falsely premised.


Sorry bud , prison is only a punishment for people not used to it.... butt sex, anal rape , deep throating black Dick.., seems like a liberal/ progressives paradise ... suit you need to hush because if you keep on all you queers are going to be committing murder for a life sentence....
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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,589 31 Jan 2016, 2:36 pm

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Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
Cannonpointer » 28 Jan 2016 1:02 pm wrote:
Southern indep » 29 May 2014 12:22 am wrote:
I wouldn't trust two witnesses over hard factual evidence anyway dealing with capital punishment.

I can't phantom putting abortion into the same category of capital punishment for the reason below...

Abortion is denying a life to merely an existence. We can't imagine not existing because to do so we would have to exist. I can't think of anything more unjust.

Usually when the death sentence is given as a punishment, it is because that person being executed denied someone else their life. If you can take someone's life not being in self defense you should suffer the same fate rather quickly. Furthermore I don't believe sitting on death row for twenty years serves the victim justice neither.

I do not feel this way because I don't value life...but the fact of someone purposely cutting another person's liFe short is just a unimaginable atrocity.


So if a pregnant woman wants to take the life of a non-citizen, your consrvative values are against that.

If the state wants to take the life of a citizen, that represents conservative values.

That about right - give or take an i before e?


So a person that was convicted of murder "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another" a choice made by that person to end the life of another human being and you are really going to compare that too a fetuses' brain getting ice picked .?? As long as the person has had their day in court and some appeals, kill them... sorry but the victim deserves justice and a life sentence commuted because of over crowding or parole yea .. suck my ass .....
I upped the size of the key word in that statement .....,

do I disagree with all abortion .. no ...

You reap what you sow......
I know you nanny staters are always looking for an excuse , like their momma didn't love them, indoctrinated racism, my ancestor was a slave, they couldn't speak English , etc etc... but you know what? I don't have sympathy for murderers ....

May I ask why you value a murderer' life over the victim???


Why does mankind have capital punishment?
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Posted by Southern indep
  12,059 31 Jan 2016, 2:51 pm

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GeorgeWashington » 31 Jan 2016 1:36 pm wrote:
Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 6:13 am wrote:
Cannonpointer » 28 Jan 2016 1:02 pm wrote:

So if a pregnant woman wants to take the life of a non-citizen, your consrvative values are against that.

If the state wants to take the life of a citizen, that represents conservative values.

That about right - give or take an i before e?


So a person that was convicted of murder "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another" a choice made by that person to end the life of another human being and you are really going to compare that too a fetuses' brain getting ice picked .?? As long as the person has had their day in court and some appeals, kill them... sorry but the victim deserves justice and a life sentence commuted because of over crowding or parole yea .. suck my ass .....
I upped the size of the key word in that statement .....,

do I disagree with all abortion .. no ...

You reap what you sow......
I know you nanny staters are always looking for an excuse , like their momma didn't love them, indoctrinated racism, my ancestor was a slave, they couldn't speak English , etc etc... but you know what? I don't have sympathy for murderers ....

May I ask why you value a murderer' life over the victim???


Why does mankind have capital punishment?

My opinion...???
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Posted by Southern indep
  12,059 31 Jan 2016, 2:52 pm

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Cannonpointer » 02 Dec 2014 12:45 am wrote:
Southern indep » 01 Dec 2014 9:19 am wrote:
Same reason millions of black children are raised in the ghetto. They were conceived by the wrong parents.


Well, there it is, then. Those aborted feti should have prepared better - just as ghetto babies should have done.Conjobs adore the very amniotic fluid those little nigger-babies-in-the-making swim in. But they hate those feti's mothers, and once those little feti metamorphose into little nigger babies, oh, the conjobs DO hate their little nauga hides.

In the end, it's a contest of conflicting rights - one of the few such contests that can't be fixed by competent zoning laws. Little nigger babies have a right to be born and experience being permanently unemployed, being beat down by cops, being stuck in prison for slinging dope when that's the actual position that society's HR Dept has reserved for them. But their mamas also have rights - including control of their own bodies, according to the SCOTUS. I think this simple nursery song breaks the issue down into bite-sized chunks and makes the issue easier to grasp:

The itsy bitsy semen goes up the mama's spout,
And no more come the menses to flush the zygote out,
The zygote forms a fetus, which kicks and causes pain
And the abortion doctor does his thing and menses come again.

I do this little puppet show when I sing that to the children (or, "survivors," as I like to call them), but I can't really show you that on the interwebs.

By the way - as regards your previous post: Never having a chance to exist cannot be "unjust," because justice is a conceit of the living. One cannot be just OR unjust to something which has never existed. Nor can a non-entity be present to having been done an injustice. There is always the possibility that aborted feti had souls, of course - which presumably CAN comprehend injustice. If they do have souls, those souls come from SOMEWHERE. It's reasonable to assume they return thither, not terribly worse off for having stood in line for a ride that their ticket wasn't printed for. Better luck on your next meatship, is what I would say to those souls. I'd have a soul tattoo: "Never trust a fetus." I mean, it's all goo goo gaa gaa 'til someone pulls the plug, am I right?

Being a fetus is a tough job - a job that only being a zygote will prepare you for. If the fetus has no soul, it cannot be done an injustice. If a soul DOES inhabit every fetus, those souls knew the risks going in. You don't hear THEM complaining.


Fess up cp... what kind of drugs do you ingest before posting??
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Words are not the defining of a man's character. Actions are the defining point of character. This is disclaimer for the words I use as to instill both a shock factor and urgency in the point made if any point is to be made.

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Posted by Cannonpointer
  20,515 31 Jan 2016, 2:55 pm

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Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 1:36 pm wrote:
Sorry bud , prison is only a punishment for people not used to it....

That's why you think we send folks to prison - to punish them?

We are ALL worthy of punishments. The reason for prison - or for the death penalty - is to protect society, not to punish. You are making an extremely immature argument in a matter of life and death - where your maturity is most called for, most necessary, most needed.

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 1:36 pm wrote:
butt sex, anal rape , deep throating black Dick.., seems like a liberal/ progressives paradise ... suit you need to hush because if you keep on all you queers are going to be committing murder for a life sentence....


And there it is. Hardy har har - let's make jokes to defend killing people.

You're down to hiding behind humor, instead of admitting that your position is indefensible.
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