Capital punishment vs. abortion - Conservatives?

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Posted by Southern indep
  12,059 31 Jan 2016, 3:01 pm

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GeorgeWashington » 31 Jan 2016 1:58 pm wrote:
Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 1:51 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 31 Jan 2016 1:36 pm wrote:

Why does mankind have capital punishment?

My opinion...???


Yes

Closure for the family, eliminating a threat, but you can't actually source this because capital punishment in one way or another predates the old testament the pyramids, probably has been with us since man started using tools,
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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,636 31 Jan 2016, 3:15 pm

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Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 2:01 pm wrote:

Closure for the family, eliminating a threat, but you can't actually source this because capital punishment in one way or another predates the old testament the pyramids, probably has been with us since man started using tools,


Capital punishment was ordained to Noah upon re-population for the preservation of society. Early man couldn't be burdened with building prisons or extending the resources to exile. Capital punishment was necessary. Today, not so much.
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Posted by Southern indep
  12,059 31 Jan 2016, 3:18 pm

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Cannonpointer » 31 Jan 2016 1:33 pm wrote:
Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 1:31 pm wrote:
And this guy above advocates for murderers of woman and children given a lite sentence to get out and become day care teachers....


That's it?

That's really weak.

You have fled the field. Defend your case for capital punishment against the withering truths I just laid down, or acknowledge your inability to do so.

Dude , were making comparisons right?? I even put it in big bold black letters the key difference... choice... the person on death row had a choice in his outcome. May not be the answer you want but that is all it is to it. How can you advocate for a murderer to outlive his victim's life twenty, thirty , fifty years? wtf man??? Prison is no longer a punishment once you get used to it..
Institutionalized prisoners don't mind being there, they would rather be there and regardless of how many rights , liberties that can be taken away from that inmate , nothing compares to that next breath of air that inmate's victim was denied . You have a problem with the government doing it after that murderer's right to due process has been seen through, his appeals exhausted , let a family member of the victim do it. No argument you can make to me can equate abortion with the execution of a murderer. . sorry bra... ...
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Words are not the defining of a man's character. Actions are the defining point of character. This is disclaimer for the words I use as to instill both a shock factor and urgency in the point made if any point is to be made.

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Posted by Southern indep
  12,059 31 Jan 2016, 3:39 pm

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GeorgeWashington » 31 Jan 2016 2:15 pm wrote:
Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 2:01 pm wrote:

Closure for the family, eliminating a threat, but you can't actually source this because capital punishment in one way or another predates the old testament the pyramids, probably has been with us since man started using tools,


Capital punishment was ordained to Noah upon re-population for the preservation of society. Early man couldn't be burdened with building prisons or extending the resources to exile. Capital punishment was necessary. Today, not so much.

Ah.... this is why I didn't go little hawk crazy here .T...t.interesting but you fueled my position even stronger, so prison confinement would even make a person commit more sins by acts of slothfulness ?? Is that right slothfulness???
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Words are not the defining of a man's character. Actions are the defining point of character. This is disclaimer for the words I use as to instill both a shock factor and urgency in the point made if any point is to be made.

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Posted by GeorgeWashington
  -20,636 31 Jan 2016, 3:43 pm

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Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 2:39 pm wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 31 Jan 2016 2:15 pm wrote:
Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 2:01 pm wrote:
Closure for the family, eliminating a threat, but you can't actually source this because capital punishment in one way or another predates the old testament the pyramids, probably has been with us since man started using tools,


Capital punishment was ordained to Noah upon re-population for the preservation of society. Early man couldn't be burdened with building prisons or extending the resources to exile. Capital punishment was necessary. Today, not so much.

Ah.... this is why I didn't go little hawk crazy here .T...t.interesting but you fueled my position even stronger, so prison confinement would even make a person commit more sins by acts of slothfulness ?? Is that right slothfulness???


Sloth is a luxury of wealth. Prisoners tend to stay as active as possible.
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Posted by Cannonpointer
  19,963 31 Jan 2016, 3:46 pm

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Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 2:18 pm wrote:
Dude , were making comparisons right??


Not RELATIVE comparisons, no. If we were, I would CERTAINLY agree that - as "deserving it" goes, murderers are ore DESERVING of the death penalty rthan fucking fetuses (excet the fetus that killed my father - naturally).

I don't read the OP as a relative comparison at all. The OP iss a statement against the death penalty, and it is using the author's anti-abortion stance as evidence AGAINST the death penalty - not FOR it as you have done.

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 2:18 pm wrote:
I even put it in big bold black letters the key difference... choice... the person on death row had a choice in his outcome. May not be the answer you want but that is all it is to it. How can you advocate for a murderer to outlive his victim's life twenty, thirty , fifty years? wtf man???


There is no justice for the family of the deceased. Nothing we can do will ever bring back their beloved. I do ot see prison OR capital puishment as justice. Justice is not ours to dispense. Our goal in removing people from society - by whatever meeans - is to protect society.

You keep getting caught up in punishment. I do not WANT the state to be a tool of punishment - a daddy to run to. I want to be my OWN daddy. I NEED the state to protect my rights - periodd. Not to make me feel better - even if my mom is murdered. The state CANNOT make me feel better about her loss. It CAN remove the flawed unit from society, and thereby protect other folks' moms.

And yes - ABSOLUTELY - the death penalty accomplishes that good end. Unarguably Better than my way, in fact. Because my way, CONCEIVABLY, the murderer of my om can escape and re-offend. But i argue the answer to that is better prisons, not murder by the state. The problem with the infinitessimally small advantage YOUR way offers is that it comes at an enormous price:
1. It makes the state I created as a servant my master;
2. It gives the master-state power to make irremediable mistakes, WITHOUT imbuing that flawed creature with any greater ability to function at such a lofty capacity. The state IS flawed, imperfect. It needs to leave a thumb in the page where it erases a sovereign citizen's life. Society should leave to itself the ability to correct its mistakes, instead of pretending it's perfect.

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 2:18 pm wrote:
Prison is no longer a punishment once you get used to it..


Not relevant.

Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 2:18 pm wrote:
Institutionalized prisoners don't mind being there, they would rather be there and regardless of how many rights , liberties that can be taken away from that inmate , nothing compares to that next breath of air that inmate's victim was denied . You have a problem with the government doing it after that murderer's right to due process has been seen through, his appeals exhausted , let a family member of the victim do it. No argument you can make to me can equate abortion with the execution of a murderer. . sorry bra... ...


Man is incapable of justice. Your argument lacks humility and is emotional, not rational.
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Posted by Cannonpointer
  19,963 31 Jan 2016, 4:02 pm

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Southern indep » 31 Jan 2016 1:52 pm wrote:
Fess up cp... what kind of drugs do you ingest before posting??


I topped the tank off years ago. A certain amount of psychadelics keeps those receptors perma-open. :)
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Every line you make, someone you love will stand in

Humanity's law of the jungle: survival of the tribe
Money is a theory until spent, and then, a value statement

When your map disputes the territory, your map - not the territory - is wrong.
Where there's much sizzle, expect little steak
Honesty is intentional - lies are the lazy way out

Incompetence and dishonesty are one beast
Nostalgia is a crime against what happened
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me



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Posted by socially centered
  6,399 22 Feb 2016, 11:06 am

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Obummerstinks » 29 Dec 2013 3:31 pm wrote:
Some personal thoughts.

I abhor abortion in almost all cases. Mothers life, rape are about the only exceptions. Fairly in line with conservatism.

I am also against capital punishment, unless there's more than one direct eye witness or some clear video proof.

I used to be a pro capital punishment guy years ago, but as modern tools have become available and those imprisoned or killed have been cleared, my position on cap punishment weakened. As I've gotten older, my disgust in abortion has grown. I'm at a point now where I view them both as murder (with the exception of the couple of exclusions listed).

My question to my conservatives friends is, given that each is taking a life - how do you justify being for one and against the other - if that is your position.

Thoughts?


much like you I have no or little trust in certain jurisdictions to investigate the way the evidence leads. Cook county Il recently came under scrutiny for deleting DNA evidence, suppressing DNA evidence and ignoring DNA evidence simply because they were investigating in a different direction. one case they claimed the boyfriend killed his girl by hopping in his car driving 130+ finding her and killing her within 5 minutes and driving back at 130+ for two hours both ways. impossible! there are way too many state troopers in Illinois to allow such crime. the kid was convicted because of suppressed DNA material collected from the victim that didn't match the boyfriend. didn't matter they already had many manhours into convicting the boy so they went that direction.
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Posted by socially centered
  6,399 22 Feb 2016, 11:08 am

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in the cases with airtight witnesses and video and a confession, at least two out of three, burn them!
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Posted by NeoConvict
  18,911 01 Mar 2016, 8:48 am

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Obummerstinks » 29 Dec 2013 3:31 pm wrote:
Some personal thoughts.

I abhor abortion in almost all cases. Mothers life, rape are about the only exceptions. Fairly in line with conservatism.

I am also against capital punishment, unless there's more than one direct eye witness or some clear video proof.

I used to be a pro capital punishment guy years ago, but as modern tools have become available and those imprisoned or killed have been cleared, my position on cap punishment weakened. As I've gotten older, my disgust in abortion has grown. I'm at a point now where I view them both as murder (with the exception of the couple of exclusions listed).

My question to my conservatives friends is, given that each is taking a life - how do you justify being for one and against the other - if that is your position.

Thoughts?



Agree. Both are sanctioned murder. Neither should be legal IMHO. If the life of the mother is at grave risk then a pregnancy should be able to be legally terminated. If a criminal is threatening the lives of others then they should be able to be ended without legal repercussions against the person defending themselves or others. Both are homicides. Homicides can be justified by self defense. No one is being defended by capital punishment that would not similarly be protected by life in prison without parole.
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