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progressivecitizen » 08 Nov 2020, 3:26 pm » wrote: I have noticed a couple of typical strategies on the part of Rs when faced with question about their moral corruption:
1. Repeating back the same accusation: when told they limit themselves with rigid belief systems for example, they will claim we are doing the same.
2. False equivalency: When corruption of their politicians is pointed out, they will say our politicians are also corrupt, conveniently (or stupidly) ignoring the huge difference in degree or damage caused.

Does anyone know of a site or video we can go to to get some good strategies for how to decimate these R arguments right out of the gate? There must be info out there but for some reason I've found none.

you aren't the only one. It should be more than obvious by now. 
Yes, they project. When you point out what they do wrong, it's almost like a new thing they can accuse you of doing. How could you, they shout!!!
Hey, they're all corrupt. Any two ways you look at it. I mean we are just you know, well, maybe we have a couple of minor flaws, but come on man, those people, they're all Marxist!!!
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=nS2C8 ... RqaNU7tB1g

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Part of the Art that so called rich billionaires utilize to Corrupt the people like Trump uses so well.

First, I learned this in school, the mosaic tobacco virus. It took a real scientist to figure out long ago that there was a disease nobody knew that infected the tobacco plant.
He spent his days pulverizing tobacco leaves and pushing them through mesh filters, again and again, until finally, like a microbiologist he figured it was something smaller, but still a piece of RNA,
a viral particle. Took a long time.

Ever wonder about CRISPR, clustered regularly interspaced short palindrophic repeats, how the knowledge of it came about? It came from microbiologist who studied bacteria that were infected with viruses. They noted that somehow bacteria have their own independent way of immunity in which to deal with viruses. And they were employed by cheese and yogurt manufacturers.
But Why, that was the question a Scientist one woman from the University of Berkeley asked. The enzymes that bacteria manufacture, that fight off a new viral particle was the only clue. 

Everyone knows proteins made by cells are bizarre and how could you unfold them, it's a crazy game. How could bacteria, single cell life with a thin cell wall do that? And its **** amazing to say the least.

And then, there's mRNA, the new vaccines to fight the SARS CoV-2 - did you know that mRNA is the new forefront to fight against a lot of disease, including cancer, and even malaria?

This all comes from raw scientific research from places like the NIH, where we as tax payers spend billions each and every year?

And off the hook, Billionaires who don't know **** profit. People like Trump, who filed bankruptcy, what 6 times, some guy who fights and loses in court thousands of times and now somehow thinks he can take a huge dump on our democracy, and he gets away with it... oh Come on Ted Cruz, you are an *******, who doesn't know that?

Trump recently said, Pfizer planned to announce its successful vaccine after the election because he was just about to reduce the high cost of medicine. Or maybe, just maybe could it be Mr. ******* Trump, you're just saying that after you lost the election. I mean you could have done it a year or two ago. You could have done it before the pandemic when the greatest economy ever that you created was going strong. But oh no, you had to wait. 

You're a dick. And we all know that it did take a Russian Microbiologist to figure that much out firsthand about the Tobacco Mosaic Virus. 
And this was before Tolstoy wrote his famous book, "War and Peace",  almost like he was saying,
Donald Trump, you stupid **** Moron!!!

 
 

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You are both right. Progressive Citizen and Bludog.
The true leader would tell the truth, that's why they should be considered as a leader.
Nobody is right all the time. There is a system which is powerful which allows people to reach a certain position.
How does that person then speak the truth, even if it means they will lose their position of leadership.
So there are divisions regarding basic premises of how to govern, what is the best long-term way to get from point A to point B.
And that makes sense, nobody knows it all, or understands completely how to make the world a better place.

You want fairness, and you want both sides to listen and to work together to hopefully suss out or discover a better path.
Oh but wait... that's what we call democracy. That's what we call remembering history, learning from all our own collective mistakes.
 

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The first thing we have to do is stop Trump.
But even after he loses, we have much much more to do.
Trump is the Republican Party, there's no going back.
The US is the richest most militarist country in the world ever.
The US has military in over 75 countries,
mostly due to the belief by some that it's okay to dominate,
to exploit people of other nations.
The ME is messed up, no leftist would disagree,
there you have orthodox religious, or even fake
made up orthodox terrorist who are insane,
and that came from somewhere, Iran, Lebanon,
Libya, when my dad was a marine in WWII,
were once good places to live.
We have struggled to hold the Genie in the box
regarding Nuclear Weapons, the cost in their maintenance
is deeply agonizing.
When seemingly almost out of nowhere an incompetent
transactional failed businessman like Trumps comes along,
And yeah, we have terrorist born on our own soil, we know
they have been around for quite sometime.

Trump sends out signals to all the authoritarians throughout the world,
and here in our own nation.

THE Bottom Line --- stop the exploitation of people everywhere.
Stop Nuclear proliferation, stop Climate Change.

We are truly at an inflection point in time.
It's just a fact.

We have to get rid of Trump, and then we have got to change
who we are. We have got to invest in a better world that is safe.
If we don't, if we don't do it soon,
We all lose.

Simple as that.
It isn't about ideology, it is about self preservation.
Frost was right in his poem,
"The Gift Outright."
Who were they, who are we?
What do we believe in, regarding any true
state of any truth, regarding human rights,
and the virtue of preservation of hope.
Who are we, where did we come from,
And from where does anyone come,
What is the Gift Outright,
that we sought to seek?
What is the subjective prose,
that guides our Gift,
outright, that would be fitting
to all, in any new dream, in any
new world?

We oppose Trump now,
We oppose Trump tomorrow,
but more than that,
we are most certain
the land, and all of its art, all
of its bucolic sense,
all of its dreams, the outright
gift of who we might become,
must never be so narrowly defined
as it has been
 

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The Bludog,
the image of a dog blue
standing in the forefront
of what we call the opera of
our Congress, the white house,
and at the forefront of the image
the natural beauty of the land
and in the deep, sits the presence
of the Bludog,
his eyes wide open

No, not the Blue Boy,
It is the Bludog

The working class
They make everything
that ever was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXQwDb7 ... w&index=14

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Chomsky who is 91 years old is still brilliant. He says Trump is worse than Stalin or Hitler. It's nothing personal. Both Stalin and Hitler murdered millions, however, they did it for a reason. 
You could also call Henry Kissinger who bombed Cambodia a murderer.
It's nothing personal. It's Trumps actions regarding cancellation of nuclear arms treaties with Iran and Russia. 
It's about Trumps ideas regarding doing everything he can to bolster the use of fossil fuels in the face of climate change that could destroy life as we know it on Earth.

For what it's worth, FDR was likely the best president the US ever had. It's a choice, democracy to decide the fate of our economic stability that supports all people, or, neoliberalism that allows the richest 0.1 percent to make all the decisions for everyone. 
The more you know


https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/ ... an-history
 

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Giuliani knows those documents exist, why it's just a matter of time, and sure, some expert investigation by a pro like him.
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xzulhe_iHE


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seems like a pipe dream to take Texas. I watched the new Borat Movie today. Holy Cow, Rudolph Giuliani what the heck happened to America's favorite Mayor?...wait, why he spend so much time in Ukraine, who he talking to? Movie ends with nice note, the Women in Kazakhstan are liberated, and then at the very end a message: Vote

https://www.insider.com/borat-2-sacha-b ... ne-2020-10

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/26/busi ... borat.html

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It's a strange world indeed!
I've heard rumors of Trump losing and then deciding to leave the country for good.
In early January he doesn't get back on Air Force One, and instead flees
possibly to Russia.

Good bye Trump,
Dosvedanya Trump
Dosvedanya

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The Trump administration was recently admonished by the courts in Pennsylvania because they placed video camera's at drop boxes. Aha!... they shouted with glee, we witnessed more than three people who had dropped more than just one ballot into the drop box!!! (they did not say that it could have been a wife dropping off ballots from her own family).

But, what gives them, The Trump campaign the right to video tape voter drop boxes is the real question!
 

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Olivaw » 24 Oct 2020, 6:41 pm » wrote: President Biden won’t need to do much to transition. As batteries, solar, wind and energy efficiency become increasingly competitive, people and industries will switch to greener technology for economic reasons.

Not until there is a political force willing to do the tough battles to rebuild our energy grid, which will take a lot of spending. That, is what we are waiting for, that is what I've been waiting for a long time to happen. That's what you've been waiting for too.

Why do you think you see all the big spending in adds by Corporate Oil companies like Exxon for the last decade? They pretend as though they are trying to do something, when it's all a farce.
How much do you think they spend on politics throughout the states? 

In California you have the newbie Gig economic power houses spending 200 million to make sure they don't have to support gig economy workers, let them just be their own contractors with the freedom that affords them they say. If you do the math, 200 million in political adds, 500,00 gig economy drivers, wouldn't it just be more reasonable to pay those gig workers a little lmore?

That's what they do. It's what they have always done. So they hasten progressive policy, they have stopped what could be for a long long time. 
To me it is maddening. The US has so much, we have wealth, we have a diversity in people, and we could be so much better than we are. Like I said before, this pandemic has unmasked the truth about our economy. It should have shown us how many people are just getting by, all the people who work two jobs, or went into debt to get a college degree and then came away with no good job. 

People are rightly upset. 

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The DNI, John Ratcliffe was barely confirmed in the Senate. It was party line all the way.
Ratcliffe is a Tea Party favorite. Not the perfect pick for someone who should be non-political in such an important post as Director of National Intelligence - to put it mildly.

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zkyll8 » 24 Oct 2020, 9:31 pm » wrote: I completely agree with this statement. 

I have own members of my family that have completely fell into the Trump trap. 

It's a sad reality.

I know, you love them. You might speak to them on the phone, and they'll touch upon the pol, and you'll say nothing, just change the subject.
I miss you I say. I know better than to say what I think. Because I do love them. And I'm sure they love me too. 
I could easily say that I was born a liberal minded person. But I could also say that if I were born in Somalia / especially if I was bullied enough, that I might have become a pirate.
Where did the divide happen? For me, the more I learned a bit about history, the more I wanted to learn more about history. I'd read about Keynes, then think about the other people
he surrounded himself with, then I learned about them. I learned about C.S. Lewis, and his novels, and then I wondered a bit more about religion. 
You don't condemn someone because of what they think, but you try to touch on why your focal point is different than theirs.
And yet, sadly these days, the rational discussion about differing viewpoints seems too impossible to undertake. 
 

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zkyll8 » 24 Oct 2020, 9:23 pm » wrote: They like the division and hate it fuels the party in general. 

Without the rage and hate that the Republican party spews they don't have a party.

Absolutely, it's the God awful Truth!!!

And, we are being objective when we say this.
It's not like we are just saying this to be better. It's not just a game.
These are people in our own families. We are sickened by this divide!

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RollingRock » 23 Oct 2020, 5:10 pm » wrote: Where do they all come from?    

This is beyond disturbing.  Two separate nutjobs, now in custody:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/da ... ris-letter

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/ ... e0dd956de6
The short answer is, they've been around for a long time. The right looks the other way, and our current president uses gas lighting speech to make them feel somehow legit.
I'm from Michigan, a place I still love. Much of my family still lives there. I thought of moving back for a lot of reasons once I retire. But then I thought, it's a right to carry state now. 
WTF - The governor through her AG made it illegal to carry a gun within 100  yards of a polling place, but now, some crazy anarchist have brought a law suit against that law.
They are saying it is their God Given right to carry a gun in the streets, or wherever, even at a polling place. 

How the hell do a few jerks make life messed up for the rest of us? That's a question I would like to ask!

In a place like the UK, they look at the US and think literally - the US does not have a police force, what they have in the US is a militarized militia - the US is a militarily controlled state. 
That's literally what they think. 

If you think about what happened in Bosnia, what happened sort of makes sense. Imagine one day, only because of who you are, there are these other people different than you who are suddenly out to kill you. The first thing you would do is find people like yourself in order to fight back. You would do this first off because you have a government that does not protect all people equally. Instead it just allows you the liberty to carry your own fire arms which you must use to protect yourself. So you do what you have to do and form groups to protect people like you from - those people like them. The village that once contained both groups peacefully is now completely divided, and that's when the atrocity begins.

 
 
Last edited by Older Guy on 24 Oct 2020, 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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We are even finding out that most of the Black Lives Matter protests were invaded by White Nationalists, and not Antifa. White Nationalists showed up to these rallies for the sole purpose to create chaos. They broke store windows, and it turns out started fires. We even saw some of these protests on television where some people in the crowd had semi automatic rifles.
But the stupid jerk president did nothing. He actually provoked more chaos.

We all know that social media is filled with hate speech. And it is disgusting, all the lies, the stupid lies that are sowed. And our incompetent president even retweets these lies. When someone
corners him on that topic, he says, I don't know who these people are, I just retweeted a thread I heard. Oh, but I have denounced white racists, I have so many times... But who in the media is doing a damn thing about Antifa he shouts madly - And, you can even see the color on his face change and the veins in his forehead bulge.

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Today we have the technology to transform the country, and the world some day away from Fossil Fuels. Nobody says it can happen tomorrow, but it can happen in most of our lifetimes if we do it right.

The problem is that we don't have the infrastructure to support all electric cars, the heating and cooling of all homes, as well as the powering of tomorrow's industries. Both Wind and Solar are cheaper than ever, and we now have the technologies to store energy from these two sources. The problem, we don't have the transmission lines going from the windy states to the most populated areas.
The problem is we have an old decaying energy grid that will take trillions of dollars to rebuild and decentralize. 

In order to do this we will need the political might to fight against the Big Dirty Energy Conglomerates who hold a lot of money. We will need to own the Senate and the Congress. At least until we can get both parties to participate in and focus on the issue once and for all. It's extremely doable, but we will need a bevy of new engineers, we will need affordable colleges, we will need reform our financial house and regrow the middle class.

The Green New Deal was only an outline, but like the Four Freedoms of FDR's age, it must be mandated by strong leadership. The problem with that is the age old battle we have with ideologies
that have crippled strong Governmental actions that once transformed this country after the Great Depression. 

Not to do so would spell our most certain doom. It's not like we have a choice. 

The US became the economic power that it is today after WWI. WWI if you remember, decimated Europe. They lost most of their young men in war and they lost all their wealth and most of their means of production, agriculture, etc... They completely depended upon the US at that time. And this brought prosperity to the US, however, it was a misguided prosperity. The Financial system in the US during the time was run by Wealthy elites from the Gilded Age where the top ten percent or so owned a whopping 85 percent of America's wealth. When the bottom dropped out of our unregulated financial industry in the early 1930's it created a worldwide depression. 

Hence, FDR. Through Keynesian ideas the US transformed itself and helped save the world. The UK took Keynesian ideas all the way through and created a national health system, a pension system for retired people, as well as a social fall back for all its people. Much of Europe followed suit, after WWII. And no, it did not lead them down the road of communism and fascist regimes. 

Yes, there is a lot the US people can learn from. We have the benefit of a diversity of people. This is a grand thing. If we can shore up our immigration policies and make them both fair as well as advantageous to the citizens already here, we all benefit. 

Yes, it is crucial that we right the wrongs regarding systemic racism in this country once and for all! 

We need to do all of this in a pragmatic way. The first thing we need to do is understand a bit about history, and along that line stop all the damn lies. This is our country and it is up to us to transform it into something that it can be, something it should be, something that will help transform the rest of the world, and not by our own example alone, but by our willingness to collaborate with the rest of the World at large!

 
 

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The Republicans in today's Republican Party have no credibility whatsoever. It's not just Donald J. Trump, it's also the way they look the other way with his incessant lies. In the last debate he seems to question the Obama Administration asking Biden, what did you do in the eight years you were in office - as if they did nothing.

They brought the economy back from near depression and handed Trump the economy which he immediately took credit for.
They did their best to reform the Financial System that had run amok with the Dodd Frank - Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.
They brought affordable healthcare to millions of Americans who had no healthcare insurance at all. Mandating that insurance companies cover those with pre-existing conditions, and at the same rate as others in their age group. The ACA also allowed for children to be covered by their parents healthcare until the age of 26/
DACA which protected eligible immigrant youth who came to this country when they were young.
Negotiated a Deal to block a Nuclear Iran - a deal that included many of our allies.
Secured a U.S. Commitment to a Global Agreement on Climate Change.
Eliminated Osama Bin Laden
Turned around the U.S. Auto Industry
Repealed Don't Ask Don't Tell
Reversed Bush II's torture policies.
Normalized Relations with Cuba
etc...

https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/ ... revisited/

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Instead of enacting tax provisions that anyone with enough money can easily shake off, why not do something about monopolies and patent laws? Why not do away with Big Money lobbies, and Big Money political speech?

If you are afraid that government programs will lead us down the road to serfdom, why not create a body of knowledge experts who can monitor their outcomes, good or bad, continue them, or vanquish them with true facts? And I know, I know, the Right hates the bureaucrats, those unelected government workers who are not elected - they call them the "Deep State", although none of them make much money. When the Right calls the bureaucrats the "Deep State", you kind of understand that it's really a projection. If you are a crook, you project corruption onto your prospective enemies.
It's a game that Trump learned from Roy Cohn, the guy who supported Senator Joe McCarthy during the so-called Red Scare.



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bludog Oct 16, 2020

Go to original post on Oct 17, 2020 7:38pm
Go to nomination on Oct 17, 2020 8:56pm
Last edited by Older Guy on 19 Oct 2020, 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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