On Economics

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promoderate

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Everyone knows FDR. The man of the New Deal and the 'hero' of government welfare. But what was he referring to when he proclaimed that 'Happy Days Are Here Again?'

Was he referring to the 1.5 million married women that had been abandoned by their husbands?

What about the fact that minorities were hurt the most by job layoffs? FDR ran as a Democrat, the supposed party of 'social justice,' (despite fighting against every major civil rights initiative since its founding in 1829 and using the KKK to keep African Americans and Republicans out of power in the South) yet minorities were the most affected by layoffs due to the racist Democrat-created New Deal, "most of the programs targeted unemployed white males. Black males were either shut out completely or had to settle for separate and lower pay scales. A shortage of jobs in the Southwest led to the illegal deportation of 400,000 Mexican-Americans so that whites could get more jobs or government relief." What? Racist Democrats? This MUST be fake news.

Seems more in line with the ICE family detention policies implemented by the Obama administration, where 2,362,966 border crossers were detained from fiscal year 2010 to 2016.

But I'm not here to get on a soapbox about racism. What I really want to talk about is economics.

Everyone remembers the New Deal and the 'hero' of FDR, but overlooks the decades of suffering that new and established Americans of all colors and backgrounds endured as a result of these terrible policies.

But who remembers JP Morgan Sr., the American financier who dominated corporate business and single handedly prevented an American recession in a matter of 20 minutes during the Panic of 1907?


"The New York Stock Exchange didn't have enough money to complete its trades, and the head of the Exchange came across the street to Morgan and said 'we're gonna have to close before 3:00 because we can't keep the trades going.' Morgan said, 'You can't do that, in this climate it will make things so much worse. We have got to keep the stock exchange open.' So he called several of the leading bankers to his office and said, 'We need 20 million dollars in 20 minutes to send across the street to the stock exchange.' And these guys, without flinching, put up that money. It's evidence of how much they trusted Morgan, that they knew he was the guy that could stop this, and he wasn't going to do anything tricky with it. Later that week, New York City couldn't meet its payroll. It went on like this for two harrowing, terrible weeks, and finally, it began to subside. One of the headlines in the middle of this, something like 'Stocks Stabilized for the Moment, and JP Morgan has a Cold'" How JP Morgan Chase Became The Largest Bank In The US, CNBC (video link below).

To put that last line into perspective, the great JP Morgan hadn't slept for weeks, crunching calculations and glaring over business data to help save the economy. His long successful history in the financial community made him respected and trusted by his peers, and he was the right man to save the economy at the time. How does his long forgotten triumph compare to the heavily studied decades-long Great Depression maintained by over-regulation from the federal government?

"While Morgan was celebrated on Wall Street for saving the economy, people quickly realized that perhaps one banker shouldn't have so much power." CNBC

WHY NOT???

After all of his work and experience, and the amazing success he made with the 1907 recovery, shouldn't he have so much power? He earned it, after all, through trust and the voluntary interactions he made with other bankers, not through force and the end of a gun, as is seen in modern FBI raids of financial institutions that are, ironically, supported by tape and glue through the Federal Reserve and their stupid 'Too Big to Fail' economic 'policy.'

The government can take your money at gunpoint, businesses have to persuade you.

The Federal Reserve System ITSELF takes responsibility for the terrible, hair-pulling, drawn-out economic recoveries our country has suffered since the government took over the 'bail out business' in 1913 with the founding of our central bank. In a 2015 article, the Federal Reserve states:

"The panic’s impact is still felt today because it spurred the monetary reform movement that led to the establishment of the Federal Reserve System." Federal Reserve History

Maybe it's time to return private business into private hands and minds that have a vested personal interest in keeping our economy alive and thriving, the greatest economy in the world, the one that has lifted so many up into the middle class.

Just a thought. Post yours below.


Edit 5:28 PM EST: Changed "loves" to "knows" in first sentence because it made more sense for the flow of the post.

Here's that video I was talking about if you want to see the whole thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rb2TsOm3Kw
 
 
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Crazytrain

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Bankers asking for more power. Great.

Crazytrain

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Didn't they get bailed out after the right literally said if they deregulated banks. And oh yeah they said that banks wouldn't commit suicide. Trillions of dollars later.

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promoderate

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Crazytrain » 29 Jun 2020, 8:27 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 8:27 pm
Didn't they get bailed out after the right literally said if they deregulated banks. And oh yeah they said that banks wouldn't commit suicide. Trillions of dollars later.

 
There is no such thing as too big to fail, yet it has been the economic policy of so many administrations to bail out the wealthy corporations, keeping alive the conniving zombies of criminal past who live on taxpayer dollars and market manipulation. Let the failures die and make room for new, dependable organizations. Whenever things are done by force in a way that limits the actions and choices of others, mainly by the government, it is bad for society as a whole.

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promoderate

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Crazytrain » 29 Jun 2020, 8:25 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 8:25 pm
Bankers asking for more power. Great.

 

It's more just an example of how the private market prevented a recession in 2 weeks, yet when the Feds took over in 1913 and had their first test in 1929, they failed miserably, so miserably that it led to the dire consequences of the great Depression which lasted for years.

Crazytrain

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promoderate » 29 Jun 2020, 8:31 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 8:31 pm
There is no such thing as too big to fail, yet it has been the economic policy of so many administrations to bail out the wealthy corporations, keeping alive the conniving zombies of criminal past who live on taxpayer dollars and market manipulation. Let the failures die and make room for new, dependable organizations. Whenever things are done by force in a way that limits the actions and choices of others, mainly by the government, it is bad for society as a whole.

I agree with this to a point. Regulation alot of times is to protect the investors from the so called too big to fail corporations and banks. 

Crazytrain

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It's like the kid in school that pushes the boundary's because their is no rules that apply to what he is doing. Then the school goes too far in rules because they are reacting to the idiots.
 

Crazytrain

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It sort of how Trump abused bankruptcy rules to get out of paying for services rendered.

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promoderate

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Crazytrain » 29 Jun 2020, 8:37 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 8:37 pm
It's like the kid in school that pushes the boundary's because their is no rules that apply to what he is doing. Then the school goes too far in rules because they are reacting to the idiots.
 

 

“The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

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promoderate

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Crazytrain » 29 Jun 2020, 8:38 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 8:38 pm
It sort of how Trump abused bankruptcy rules to get out of paying for services rendered.

 

Sure, but it's role modeled from the top, since all of our bank notes are issuances of debt that retain no actual value and are centrally manipulated ever since we diverted from commodity based (gold backed) money in favor of fiat based (debt backed) money. Trump just played the system that he has to work in, which doesn't make it right, but the change has to start from the top.

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promoderate » 29 Jun 2020, 8:41 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 8:41 pm
“The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

that is how I live my life. All kinds of points for that one buddy. 

Crazytrain

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promoderate » 29 Jun 2020, 8:49 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 8:49 pm
Sure, but it's role modeled from the top, since all of our bank notes are issuances of debt that retain no actual value and are centrally manipulated ever since we diverted from commodity based (gold backed) money in favor of fiat based (debt backed) money. Trump just played the system that he has to work in, which doesn't make it right, but the change has to start from the top.

But in the same aspect you need to take risks for rewards. But abusing the system is bad also. Business and individuals would be less likely to take risks if the law was changed. 

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Crazytrain » 29 Jun 2020, 8:49 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 8:49 pm
that is how I live my life. All kinds of points for that one buddy.
Same to you

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Crazytrain » 29 Jun 2020, 8:52 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 8:52 pm
But in the same aspect you need to take risks for rewards. But abusing the system is bad also. Business and individuals would be less likely to take risks if the law was changed.

I guess you are right about Trump then, at least in a perfect system, but in our hybrid free market/command economy where regulation and accountability are in all of the wrong places, you cannot blame him for taking advantage of the debt forgiveness and such when there are so many other roadblocks in place that make commerce unnecessarily difficult. He worked with what he was given. In order to say that Trump was wrong on what he did with the debt, you assume that the system is justified to begin with. But our currency is made on debt, so how could you blame him for taking advantage of it?

Crazytrain

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promoderate » 29 Jun 2020, 9:00 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 9:00 pm
I guess you are right about Trump then, at least in a perfect system, but in our hybrid free market/command economy where regulation and accountability are in all of the wrong places, you cannot blame him for taking advantage of the debt forgiveness and such when there are so many other roadblocks in place that make commerce unnecessarily difficult. He worked with what he was given. In order to say that Trump was wrong on what he did with the debt, you assume that the system is justified to begin with. But our currency is made on debt, so how could you blame him for taking advantage of it?
This is true. 

Crazytrain

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promoderate » 29 Jun 2020, 9:00 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 9:00 pm
I guess you are right about Trump then, at least in a perfect system, but in our hybrid free market/command economy where regulation and accountability are in all of the wrong places, you cannot blame him for taking advantage of the debt forgiveness and such when there are so many other roadblocks in place that make commerce unnecessarily difficult. He worked with what he was given. In order to say that Trump was wrong on what he did with the debt, you assume that the system is justified to begin with. But our currency is made on debt, so how could you blame him for taking advantage of it?
Trump is the kid in school that bent the rules till the school administrators made the rules to stop him. 

Polar1ty

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promoderate » 29 Jun 2020, 8:34 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 8:34 pm
It's more just an example of how the private market prevented a recession in 2 weeks, yet when the Feds took over in 1913 and had their first test in 1929, they failed miserably, so miserably that it led to the dire consequences of the great Depression which lasted for years.
Not completely accurate.

There was no central bank in the United States back in 1893, yet the depression was quite severe and lasted I believe 5-6 years.

Likewise, one can point out that monetary policy can be used to counteract recessions seen in the Post-WW2 era. It does NOT have to be left up to "the market," whatever that means.

I don't support the Federal Reserve, but for an entirely different reason.

Polar1ty

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Also, you two have an interesting circlejerk here. Will be quite amusing for me to see what you have to say in the future.

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sooted up Cyndi

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Water Cooler Poleece
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ROFL
Polar1ty » 29 Jun 2020, 11:01 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 11:01 pm
Also, you two have an interesting circlejerk here. Will be quite amusing for me to see what you have to say in the future.

 I bet you cant wait Polarity.  He doesn't even have a clue what he's stepping into.  he  he  he

Polar1ty

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sootedupCyndi » 29 Jun 2020, 11:08 pm » wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 11:08 pm
 I bet you cant wait Polarity.  He doesn't even have a clue what he's stepping into.  he  he  he
Well, in that case, I shall not interfere

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