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FOS

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Pengwin » 14 Jan 2021, 12:22 am » wrote: Yes, and the two stories we have of Gentiles they are seeking healing for others, not salvation (which they are not offered).  The rich young man didn't get it either, he walked away.
I don't really care how you interpret Christianity. Why are we arguing this?

If you think it was a Jewish fraud...whatever. it isnt my battle. Go fight with actual Christians.

You could read...say...rene guenon. He believed Christianity was just some subset of perennial wisdom. But in the end he also gave up on Christianity and wanted the west to become Hindu.

That is why the swastika became the Nazi symbol....
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Pengwin

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Mark 8:The Way of the Cross34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save their life[b] will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? 37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”

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FOS

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Pengwin » 14 Jan 2021, 12:26 am » wrote: So, Jesus was a liar, a Jew, who died on the cross and was not the Son of God.

That all good?
Its fine with me buddy. But it isn't Christian doctrine

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Water Cooler Poleece
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ROFL
The Passover Plot. very famous book.

https://www.zenker.se/Books/passover.shtml

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Pengwin

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FOS » 14 Jan 2021, 12:31 am » wrote: Its fine with me buddy. But it isn't Christian doctrine

So everyone has noticed...
 

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Pengwin » 14 Jan 2021, 12:32 am » wrote: So everyone has noticed...
Well I am trying to explain Christian doctrine to you...which i understand but do not hold myself. But at least i understand it.

And you keep wanting to change the subject to what I believe.

You are trying to be tactical but it doesn't work. At the end of the day you misrepresent Christianity and even a pagan can tell you this.

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Pengwin

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Not a Gentile, for starters.  Nor the same person...

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FOS

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Pengwin » 14 Jan 2021, 12:32 am » wrote: So everyone has noticed...
Here's an interesting tidbit: as a child my mother read me verses from the bible. She was actually an atheist. But I guess the whole thing about having a child made her want to offer me something...and all she had was Christianity.

My grandparents, however, told me pagan mythology. They never called themselves pagan...but that is what they told me. In contrast with my mother.

It's a strange world.

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FOS » 14 Jan 2021, 12:36 am » wrote: Well I am trying to explain Christian doctrine to you...which i understand but do not hold myself. But at least i understand it.

And you keep wanting to change the subject to what I believe.

You are trying to be tactical but it doesn't work. At the end of the day you misrepresent Christianity and even a pagan can tell you this.
I don't need to ask about Christianity to learn it from you.  In know what Christians believe, what the Bible says, and that is why I rejected Christians and Christianities.

Now Yeshua, the Jew, that's different.

Try not saying to Christians (or someone learning the faith) that Jesus wasn't a Jew, for starters, or that a Jew couldn't be the Son of God.


 

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Pengwin » 14 Jan 2021, 12:37 am » wrote:
Not a Gentile, for starters.  Nor the same person...
I was responding to your claim that there were no gentile followers at the time of his death. 

The woman at the well was a gentile follower.

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Pengwin » 14 Jan 2021, 12:41 am » wrote: I don't need to ask about Christianity to learn it from you.  In know what Christians believe, what the Bible says, and that is why I rejected Christians and Christianities.

Now Yeshua, the Jew, that's different.

Try not saying to Christians (or someone learning the faith) that Jesus wasn't a Jew, for starters, or that a Jew couldn't be the Son of God.
Well ask a well educated Christian what the lamentations of Jeremiah was about.

It meant that Jews broke their covenant with god.

Jesus was a second covenant. It became, in fact, anti jewish.
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Pengwin

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FOS » 14 Jan 2021, 12:40 am » wrote: Here's an interesting tidbit: as a child my mother read me verses from the bible. She was actually an atheist. But I guess the whole thing about having a child made her want to offer me something...and all she had was Christianity.

My grandparents, however, told me pagan mythology. They never called themselves pagan...but that is what they told me. In contrast with my mother.

It's a strange world.

I was raised Agnostic, never Baptisted.  Picked up Christianity at 16 when I wanted to date cute Christian girls...

 

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GeorgeWashington » 14 Jan 2021, 12:43 am » wrote: I was responding to your claim that there were no gentile followers at the time of his death. 

The woman at the well was a gentile follower.
No, but it would take too long to explain.  In basic terms, John, all of it, is anti-Semitic **** that Jesus wouldn't have believed a word of, pun intended...

 

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FOS » 14 Jan 2021, 12:43 am » wrote: Well ask a well educated Christian what the lamentations of Jeremiah was about.

It meant that Jews broke their covenant with god.

Jesus was a second covenant. It became, in fact, anti jewish.
Yeshua was just another in a long long of failed Jewish Messiahs.  That his particular cult became a faith for Gentiles was the work of Paul, not Jesus.  He is the actual founder of the Christianities.

That's why Paul's Epistles (letters) predate the Gospels.
 
 

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Pengwin » 14 Jan 2021, 12:46 am » wrote:
GeorgeWashington » 14 Jan 2021, 12:43 am » wrote: I was responding to your claim that there were no gentile followers at the time of his death. 

The woman at the well was a gentile follower.
No, but it would take too long to explain.  In basic terms, John, all of it, is anti-Semitic **** that Jesus wouldn't have believed a word of, pun intended...
lol...  if I can’t argue about Christianity using the Bible then were at an impasse

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GeorgeWashington » 14 Jan 2021, 12:52 am » wrote: lol...  if I can’t argue about Christianity using the Bible then were at an impasse
Not if you stick to Matthew, Mark, and Luke (the Synoptic Gospels), and avoid known and likely forgeries in the Bible, as well as John which is total crap.  By then the Jesus Messiah Cult was becoming a religion for - Gentiles.

Look it up.

And considering your position on Jesus, discussing Christianity (without Judaism) with you is a waste of time.
 
 

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Pengwin » 14 Jan 2021, 12:48 am » wrote: Yeshua was just another in a long long of failed Jewish Messiahs.  That his particular cult became a faith for Gentiles was the work of Paul, not Jesus.  He is the actual founder of the Christianities.

That's why Paul's Epistles (letters) predate the Gospels.
I'm not Christian so if you want to piss of Christians, speak to them.

I am just telling you that your version is not Christian doctrine. Jesus transcends ethnicity as the son of god. He wasnt Jewish. That is Christian doctrine.

Jews violated the first covenant. Jesus represented the second covenant. Jews killed jesus. That is Christian doctrine.

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FOS » 14 Jan 2021, 1:06 am » wrote: I'm not Christian so if you want to piss of Christians, speak to them.

I am just telling you that your version is not Christian doctrine. Jesus transcends ethnicity as the son of god. He wasnt Jewish. That is Christian doctrine.

Jews violated the first covenant. Jesus represented the second covenant. Jews killed jesus. That is Christian doctrine.
Asking the Christians about actual Christianities is a waste of time.  Some have faith but hardly a one has knowledge.

To them Jesus was a white blonde guy, walking around Palestine doing miracles.  They do not, and never will, understand Yeshua the Jew, one of many failed Messiahs.

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Pengwin » 14 Jan 2021, 1:12 am » wrote: Asking the Christians about actual Christianities is a waste of time.  Some have faith but hardly a one has knowledge.

To them Jesus was a white blonde guy, walking around Palestine doing miracles.  They do not, and never will, understand Yeshua the Jew, one of many failed Messiahs.
There exist highly educated christians. I respect them. I am just not one of them.

But no...your caricature does not fit with all Christians. I could direct you to more educated Christians but i feel like you don't really care.

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FOS » 14 Jan 2021, 1:14 am » wrote:  I could direct you to more educated Christians but i feel like you don't really care.
 
You're correct, I don't.

I wrote off the faith 40 years ago.  It's just a hobby for me...

 

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