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Annoyed Liberall

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Hot Little Twist
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This thread is for people who want to discuss the facts and the moral implications of policing and criminality.
EDIT: Please feel free to post your opinions and theories.
Anyone going off topic will get the boot.
I also won't tolerate name calling or any similar such ****.

I am of the belief that Chauvin caused the death of George Floyd.
I am not of the belief that Floyd was some model citizen trying to get his life together.
He was a common thug.
However, that doesn't make him any less human or deserving of mercy.
If he passed a fake bill, that should be up to the court to punish.
Not a public servant that was not doing his job of serving and protecting.
I have seen almost all the trial in real time.
Yesterday they showed police body cam footage, and it really put things in perspective.
Once again, the media is only showing/telling bits and pieces of the whole story.
Floyd was in his car at the time of first contact with law enforcement.
He was not in the store.
He fought like hell to stay out of that police car.
He claimed he was claustrophobic and wanted to sit in the front seat.
The police offered to open the window for him.
He was definitely in an agitated state and really making those cops work.

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Coolguy10013

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I was able to catch some of the eyewitness testimony.

It was heartbreaking.

Just from the perspective of the watching was caught on camera, I don't know how anyone can deny Chauvin killed the man.

All Chauvin had to do was take his knee off the man's neck. He could have been restrained without all of that.

The prosecution was extremely compelling.

Let's see what the defense comes up with.

I hate to say this, but if Chauvin is not convicted, all hell is going to break loose.

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Coolguy10013 » 01 Apr 2021, 7:07 am » wrote: I was able to catch some of the eyewitness testimony.

It was heartbreaking.

Just from the perspective of the watching was caught on camera, I don't know how anyone can deny Chauvin killed the man.

All Chauvin had to do was take his knee off the man's neck. He could have been restrained without all of that.

The prosecution was extremely compelling.

Let's see what the defense comes up with.

I hate to say this, but if Chauvin is not convicted, all hell is going to break loose.
They had the equipment to hog tie him.
I am not sure why they didn't do that after a couple minutes.
The old man was telling him to just get in the car.
I think it's obvious that at that time he would have been willing to get in.
When the crowd was yelling and Floyd was yelling one of the cops kinda laughed and said 'this is why you don't do drugs kids'.
It was so callous and uncaring and unprofessional.
I am not sure which cop said it.

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Neo

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The first time Floyd said he couldn't breathe was long before they put him on the ground. He said he couldn't breathe several times while refusing to get in the police vehicle. The officers offered to sit with him, offered to lower the window, and turn on the air conditioning. He was asked several times if he was on drugs, each time Floyd denied it. An ambulance was called before they tried to put him in the suv. Believe up to that point the officers did their jobs without any malicious intent or untoward behavior.

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AnnoyedLiberall » 01 Apr 2021, 7:13 am » wrote:
When the crowd was yelling and Floyd was yelling one of the cops kinda laughed and said 'this is why you don't do drugs kids'.
It was so callous and uncaring and unprofessional.

 
Agreed!
 

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Annoyed Liberall

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Neo » 01 Apr 2021, 7:18 am » wrote: The first time Floyd said he couldn't breathe was long before they put him on the ground. He said he couldn't breathe several times while refusing to get in the police vehicle. The officers offered to sit with him, offered to lower the window, and turn on the air conditioning. He was asked several times if he was on drugs, each time Floyd denied it. An ambulance was called before they tried to put him in the suv. Believe up to that point the officers did their jobs without any malicious intent or untoward behavior.
Agree with all that.
Here's the full transcript:

Operator: 911 what's the address of the emergency?
Caller: This is ah 3759 Chicago Ave.
Operator: How can I help you?
Caller: Um someone comes our store and give us fake bills and we realize it before he left the store, and we ran back outside, they was sitting on their car. We tell them to give us their phone, put their (inaudible) thing back and everything and he was also drunk and everything and return to give us our cigarettes back and so he can, so he can go home but he doesn't want to do that, and he's sitting on his car cause he is awfully drunk and he's not in control of himself.
Operator: Okay, what type of vehicle does he have?
Caller: And .... um he's got a vehicle that is ah ... one second let me see if I can see the license. The driver license is BRJ026.
Operator: Okay, what color is it?
Caller: It's a blue color. It's a blue van.
Operator: Blue van?
Caller: Yes, van.
Operator: Alright blue van, gotcha. Is it out front or is it on 38th St.?
Caller: Ah it's on 38th St.
Operator: On 38th St. So, this guy gave a counterfeit bill, has your cigarettes, and he's under the influence of something?
Caller: Something like that, yes. He is not acting right.
Operator: What's he look like, what race?
Caller: Um, he's a tall guy. He's like tall and bald, about like 6 ... 6 1/2, and she's not acting right so and she started to go, drive the car.
Operator: Okay so, female or a male?
Caller: Um...
Operator: Is it a girl or a boy?
Caller: (Talking to somebody else) — he's asking (inaudible) one second. Hello?
Operator: Is it a girl or a boy that did this?
Caller: It is a man.
Operator: Okay. Is he white, black, Native, Hispanic, Asian?
Caller: Something like that.
Operator: Which one? White, black, Native, Hispanic, Asian?
Caller: No, he's a black guy.
Operator: Alright (sigh).
Caller: How is your day going?
Operator: Not too bad.
Caller: Had a long day, huh?
Operator: What's your name?
Caller: My name is (deleted)
Operator: Alright, a phone number for you?
Caller: (Deleted)
Operator: Alright, I've got help on the way. If that vehicle or that person leaves before we get there, just give us a call back, otherwise we'll have squads out there shortly, okay?

Caller: No problem.
Operator: Thank you.
According to the 911 call above, dispatch was told he was 'drunk' and 'not in control of himself'.
EMTs should have been dispatched at the same time as police.
I would like an answer as to why that didn't happen.

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Hank

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Coolguy10013 » 01 Apr 2021, 7:07 am » wrote: I was able to catch some of the eyewitness testimony.

It was heartbreaking.

Just from the perspective of the watching was caught on camera, I don't know how anyone can deny Chauvin killed the man.

All Chauvin had to do was take his knee off the man's neck. He could have been restrained without all of that.

The prosecution was extremely compelling.

Let's see what the defense comes up with.

I hate to say this, but if Chauvin is not convicted, all hell is going to break loose.

I seen some of it the other day, the defense was making a case that the crowd distracted the officer keeping his attention away from the dieing floyd. 

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Annoyed Liberall

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Hank » 01 Apr 2021, 8:13 am » wrote:
Coolguy10013 » 01 Apr 2021, 7:07 am » wrote: I was able to catch some of the eyewitness testimony.

It was heartbreaking.

Just from the perspective of the watching was caught on camera, I don't know how anyone can deny Chauvin killed the man.

All Chauvin had to do was take his knee off the man's neck. He could have been restrained without all of that.

The prosecution was extremely compelling.

Let's see what the defense comes up with.

I hate to say this, but if Chauvin is not convicted, all hell is going to break loose.

I seen some of it the other day, the defense was making a case that the crowd distracted the officer keeping his attention away from the dieing floyd. 
I don't buy that.
Officer Tao was doing crowd control.
There were 3 cops on Floyd.
Although it looked to me from the body cam footage that only Chauvin was actually on Floyd the entire time.

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AnnoyedLiberall » 01 Apr 2021, 8:21 am » wrote: I don't buy that.
Officer Tao was doing crowd control.
There were 3 cops on Floyd.
Although it looked to me from the body cam footage that only Chauvin was actually on Floyd the entire time.
Agree. The crowd was growing hostile but there weren't that many and they kept their distance. 
 

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The chief medical examiner's report establishes that, however else Floyd died, it wasn't from Chauvin's knee. Oops! I guess it wasn't absolutely essential that our country go through eight months of looting, riots and mostly peaceful arsons.

Why the police are innocent in George Floyd’s death

https://anosognosic.tumblr.com/post/643 ... rge-floyds

This trial is a total sham, but the entire power of the state, the media, the left-wing shock troops and the country's finest legal talent is being deployed against Derek Chauvin.

I don’t know much about law or medicine, but, for whatever it’s worth, I’m guessing the case will depend upon:

How much sheer racial bias, fear of violent retribution against jurors, and fear of riots is at work.
Upon whom the burden of proof winds up lying.

The facts being what they are, so far as what we know so far, it would be hard in a fair trial for the prosecution to meet the normal burden of proof of 2nd degree murder “beyond a reasonable doubt.” But the state may be able to evade that basic premise of Anglo-American law and turn the burden of proof around.

Floyd died of a drug overdose and the police acted largely correctly in the encounter, and that, consequently, the lapdog media have been lying to you for the better part of a year.

This trial is a total sham, but the entire power of the state, the media, the left-wing shock troops and the country's finest legal talent is being deployed against Derek Chauvin.

Chauvin is being offered up as a White man human sacrifice to the PC gods!!!

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Buffalo » 01 Apr 2021, 8:45 am » wrote: The chief medical examiner's report establishes that, however else Floyd died, it wasn't from Chauvin's knee. Oops! I guess it wasn't absolutely essential that our country go through eight months of looting, riots and mostly peaceful arsons.

Why the police are innocent in George Floyd’s death

https://anosognosic.tumblr.com/post/643 ... rge-floyds

This trial is a total sham, but the entire power of the state, the media, the left-wing shock troops and the country's finest legal talent is being deployed against Derek Chauvin.

I don’t know much about law or medicine, but, for whatever it’s worth, I’m guessing the case will depend upon:

How much sheer racial bias, fear of violent retribution against jurors, and fear of riots is at work.
Upon whom the burden of proof winds up lying.

The facts being what they are, so far as what we know so far, it would be hard in a fair trial for the prosecution to meet the normal burden of proof of 2nd degree murder “beyond a reasonable doubt.” But the state may be able to evade that basic premise of Anglo-American law and turn the burden of proof around.

Floyd died of a drug overdose and the police acted largely correctly in the encounter, and that, consequently, the lapdog media have been lying to you for the better part of a year.

This trial is a total sham, but the entire power of the state, the media, the left-wing shock troops and the country's finest legal talent is being deployed against Derek Chauvin.

Chauvin is being offered up as a White man human sacrifice to the PC gods!!!
You are posting an opinion piece.
This thread is for hard evidence.
I will let this post stand, for now.
But please come with facts in the future.

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AnnoyedLiberall » 01 Apr 2021, 7:00 am » wrote: This thread is for people who want to discuss the facts and the moral implications of policing and criminality.
Anyone going off topic will get the boot.
I also won't tolerate name calling or any similar such ****.

I am of the belief that Chauvin caused the death of George Floyd.
I am not of the belief that Floyd was some model citizen trying to get his life together.
He was a common thug.
However, that doesn't make him any less human or deserving of mercy.
If he passed a fake bill, that should be up to the court to punish.
Not a public servant that was not doing his job of serving and protecting.
I have seen almost all the trial in real time.
Yesterday they showed police body cam footage, and it really put things in perspective.
Once again, the media is only showing/telling bits and pieces of the whole story.
Floyd was in his car at the time of first contact with law enforcement.
He was not in the store.
He fought like hell to stay out of that police car.
He claimed he was claustrophobic and wanted to sit in the front seat.
The police offered to open the window for him.
He was definitely in an agitated state and really making those cops work.
I don't believe there was ever any intention of killing him by Chauvin or any other officer, and since the police are trained to use a knee on the back of the neck as a measure of restraint on a particular criminal who is resisting arrest very aggressively, I don't see how Chauvin could be found guilty of anything.  The problem is that if he isn't found guilty of murder, everyone is well aware of the riots, vandalism, looting, and potential loss of INNOCENT lives that will ensue.  And it's clear to me that this is exactly what the left-wing media is hoping for, in order to continue their obvious agenda against the police while increasing their ratings, which always skyrocket when there are nationwide riots.  Without Trump to focus their hatred on any longer, those ratings have cratered, and they now have a method of increasing them by stirring up both racial hatred and a hatred for the police.
 

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AnnoyedLiberall » 01 Apr 2021, 8:47 am » wrote: You are posting an opinion piece.
This thread is for hard evidence.
I will let this post stand, for now.
But please come with facts in the future.
Floyd had enough drugs in him to kill a horse and diesd of an overdose from them!!!

No amount of facts to the contrary can persuade "someone" whose mind is already made up...

But here are the facts:

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepi ... 6-3-20.pdf

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Zeets2 » 01 Apr 2021, 8:53 am » wrote: I don't believe there was ever any intention of killing him by Chauvin or any other officer, and since the police are trained to use a knee on the back of the neck as a measure of restraint on a particular criminal who is resisting arrest very aggressively, I don't see how Chauvin could be found guilty of anything.  The problem is that if he isn't found guilty of murder, everyone is well aware of the riots, vandalism, looting, and potential loss of INNOCENT lives that will ensue.  And it's clear to me that this is exactly what the left-wing media is hoping for, in order to continue their obvious agenda against the police while increasing their ratings, which always skyrocket when there are nationwide riots.  Without Trump to focus their hatred on any longer, those ratings have cratered, and they now have a method of increasing them by stirring up both racial hatred and a hatred for the police.
It is unlikely that his intention was to kill him but his actions were so flagrantly negligent that they led to floyds death and he should be held accountable for that.  Manslaughter or some type of negligent homicide seems appropriate

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Buffalo » 01 Apr 2021, 9:00 am » wrote: Floyd had enough drugs in him to kill a horse and diesd of an overdose from them!!!

No amount of facts to the contrary can persuade "someone" whose mind is already made up...

But here are the facts:

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepi ... 6-3-20.pdf
The facts are floyds death was ruled a homicide and not an overdose by the medical examiner

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Zeets2 » 01 Apr 2021, 8:53 am » wrote: I don't believe there was ever any intention of killing him by Chauvin or any other officer, and since the police are trained to use a knee on the back of the neck as a measure of restraint on a particular criminal who is resisting arrest very aggressively, I don't see how Chauvin could be found guilty of anything. 
The rest of your post is off topic.
In order to get a conviction, they don't have to prove intent.
I already conceded he was aggressively resisting.
Can you point to the policy that says 'police are trained to use a knee to the back of the neck'?

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Vegasgiants » 01 Apr 2021, 9:04 am » wrote: The facts are floyds death was ruled a homicide and not an overdose by the medical examiner
A homicide ruling is considered an expert opinion in court. It's not considered decided irrefutable fact.
 

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Buffalo » 01 Apr 2021, 9:00 am » wrote: Floyd had enough drugs in him to kill a horse and diesd of an overdose from them!!!

No amount of facts to the contrary can persuade "someone" whose mind is already made up...

But here are the facts:

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepi ... 6-3-20.pdf
I have read the autopsy report.
It was ruled a homicide, not an overdose.
Also, the timeline does not fit an opioid overdose death.

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Buffalo » 01 Apr 2021, 8:45 am » wrote: The chief medical examiner's report establishes that, however else Floyd died, it wasn't from Chauvin's knee. 

Why the police are innocent in George Floyd’s death
When causes of death are determined, whether it be in the report of a medical examiner's autopsy or on a regular old death certificate, it is often necessary to identify an immediate cause of death along with an underlying cause of death.  It's why for so many of us, the immediate cause of death is pneumonia, and the underlying cause of death is cancer or heart disease.  If it wasn't for the cancer or heart disease, the underlying cause of death, our lungs wouldn't have filled up with fluid.  The cause of death is the cancer or the heart disease, without the underlying cause, we would still be alive.  In the case of George Floyd, the underlying cause of death was the knee.  Absent the knee, George Floyd would be alive today.  It's why the chief medical examiner's also ruled the death a homicide.  Which, in a criminal case is the only thing that matters.  And in this trial  why the only thing that matters was Chauvin's knee.

Now, regarding Chauvin, as I have already posted elsewhere...Chauvin is a violent sociopath with a history of bad acts. It's his personality. Look at the video...at his face while his knee is on Floyd's neck and his hands are nonchalantly stuffed into his pockets. He's enjoying himself. It's what violent sadistic sociopaths are, and what they do.  If anybody requires a more clinical analysis I will be happy to provide it...but in this case, it ain't necessary.
 
 
Last edited by Ike Bana on 01 Apr 2021, 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Neo » 01 Apr 2021, 9:08 am » wrote: A homicide ruling is considered an expert opinion in court. It's not considered decided irrefutable fact.
Yes he is an expert on the cause of death.  So the expert whose job it is to determine cause of death has ruled this a homicide and NOT. a overdose
 

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