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Annoyed Liberall

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Hot Little Twist
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One of the paramedics is testifying for the prosecution now.
He is explaining the life saving measures they took in the ambulance.
When they first got him in the ambulance, he was flatlined.
Hopefully we will find out more.

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Neo

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PXiZ1102 » 01 Apr 2021, 11:44 am » wrote: You keep returning to the wrong conclusion.

Would I be wrong in attributing your stubborn refusal to recognize the truth to a sense of racism?

The reason for putting Floyd on the ground was what?
He demanded to be removed from the truck. Said he was claustrophobic and couldn't breathe. He was combative and was restrained. Has nothing to do with race. I would support the cops actions 100% up to the point they had him removed from the truck and restrained if the guy was elderly and white. My only issues are the failure to render aid when he became unresponsive and the general smug and unprofessional attitude Chauvin displayed. 
 
 

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Annoyed Liberall

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Paramedic testified that Floyd never regained a pulse while in the ambulance.
No pulse at the scene and no pulse while in the ambulance.
They used medical means to keep the heart pumping in case they wanted to harvest organs.

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solon

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I see a lot of nonsense. How is it rataional to say this is about hatred of whites. How is it rational to say if Floyd had been white this would be nothing. First of all if Floyd was white this WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED but if it DID and the video I SAW was released it OF COURSE would have been a big deal, Calling Chauvin a political prisoner after seeing THAT video of what he did with THAT LOOK on his face is beyond ridiculous only someone pushing white supremacy talking points would say those things

Floyd had a RIGHT to NOT be murdered no matter if he was on drugs no matter if he gave the police problems as long as he was not a DANGER to them. The police are NOT here to PUNISH people they are here to arrest and make people available for the COURTS to decide if they should be punished. and what their punishment should be

We all saw the video, We all saw the look on Chauvins face. Chauvin had a history of abusive behavior. Those things will be hard for the defense to overcome
 
Last edited by solon on 01 Apr 2021, 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Annoyed Liberall

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Hot Little Twist
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Seems to me he died on scene.
Not later in the hospital as has been reported.
He was being kept alive by mechanical means from the time he entered the ambulance.

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Blue Devil

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https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepi ... 6-3-20.pdf

I’m looking at the autopsy.  I don’t see anything about a knee being used as a restraint being the cause of death.

I do see that his fentanyl concentration was at the level used for anesthesia in a controlled medical setting.  

I still think Chauvin should be convicted

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Blue Devil » 01 Apr 2021, 12:36 pm » wrote: https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepi ... 6-3-20.pdf

I’m looking at the autopsy.  I don’t see anything about a knee being used as a restraint being the cause of death.
Homicide is the cause of death.
The autopsy also says there were no life ending injuries noted on the body.
I am hoping that we can get better answers to these questions as medical experts testify.
The police chief of Minneapolis is slated to testify tomorrow.
I hope he has some answers as to the restraint tactic used.

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AnnoyedLiberall » 01 Apr 2021, 12:35 pm » wrote: Seems to me he died on scene.
Not later in the hospital as has been reported.
He was being kept alive by mechanical means from the time he entered the ambulance.
Correct, he died on scene but was kept alive for an hour using mechanical means. He officially was declared dead in the hospital. 
 

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PXiZ1102

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Neo » 01 Apr 2021, 12:02 pm » wrote: He demanded to be removed from the truck. Said he was claustrophobic and couldn't breathe. He was combative and was restrained. Has nothing to do with race. I would support the cops actions 100% up to the point they had him removed from the truck and restrained if the guy was elderly and white. My only issues are the failure to render aid when he became unresponsive and the general smug and unprofessional attitude Chauvin displayed.
What was the point of keeping his weight on the handcuffed perp's neck.

He was already restrained when they attempted to put him in the police car.

Did the killer cop want to make him comply? Or make him stop resisting? Or did he want Floyd to be lifeless?

Well, in the 20 times Floyd said he couldn't breathe, wouldn't ONE OF THOSE TIMES, BEFORE LOSING HIS LIFE, have been the time when ANYONE would have asked him, 'well, are you NOW ready to get in then police car without any hassles?'

Why did Killer Chauvin keep him on the ground and not just on the ground with his hands cuffed behind him, but handcuffed on the ground with the cop's weight bearing down on his neck despite pleas from onlookers including his fellow cops, to relent?
And why for that long?

What was the sign or signal that Chauvin could finally relent?

What was he waiting for?
 

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solon » 01 Apr 2021, 12:29 pm » wrote: I see a lot of nonsense. How is it rataional to say this is about hatred of whites. How is it rational to say if Floyd had been whire this would be nothing. First of all if Floyd was white this WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED but if it DID and the video I SAW was released it OF COURSE would hvave been a big deal, Calling Chauvin a political prisoner after seeing THAT video of what he did with THAT LOOK on his face is beyond ridiculous only someone pushign white supremacy tatlking points would say those things

Floyd had a RIGHT to NOT be murdred no mater if he was on drugs no matter if he gave the police problems as long as he was not a DANGER to them. The police are NOT here to PUNISH people they are here to arrest and make people available for the COURTS to decide if they should be punished. and what their punishment should be

We all saw the video, We all saw the look on Chauvins face. Chauvin had a history of abusive behavior. Those things will be hard for the defense to overcome
It is about Whites in the same sense that the fentanyl was about the cause of Floyd's death.

A coincidence.
 

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PXiZ1102 » 01 Apr 2021, 12:41 pm » wrote: What was the point of keeping his weight on the handcuffed perp's neck.

He was already restrained when they attempted to put him in the police car.

Did the killer cop want to make him comply? Or make him stop resisting? Or did he want Floyd to be lifeless?

Well, in the 20 times Floyd said he couldn't breathe, wouldn't ONE OF THOSE TIMES, BEFORE LOSING HIS LIFE, have been the time when ANYONE would have asked him, 'well, are you NOW ready to get in then police car without any hassles?'

Why did Killer Chauvin keep him on the ground and not just on the ground with his hands cuffed behind him, but handcuffed on the ground with the cop's weight bearing down on his neck despite pleas from onlookers including his fellow cops, to relent?
And why for that long?

What was the sign or signal that Chauvin could finally relent?

What was he waiting for?
Too many baseless assumptions to address. He obviously did not have much weight on Floyd as he was able to move and speak pretty freely. There was no damage found from the knee at autopsy. He was conscious and responsive for most of the time he was on the ground. 
 

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Blue Devil

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AnnoyedLiberall » 01 Apr 2021, 12:38 pm » wrote: Homicide is the cause of death.
The autopsy also says there were no life ending injuries noted on the body.
I am hoping that we can get better answers to these questions as medical experts testify.
The police chief of Minneapolis is slated to testify tomorrow.
I hope he has some answers as to the restraint tactic
he was already restrained.  

homicide is a broad term

I just don’t know how you can prove Chauvin’s intent given Floyd’s behavior

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PXiZ1102 » 01 Apr 2021, 11:33 am » wrote: Did you watch the body cam video footage?

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt before concluding you lack discernment or good judgment.

I don't believe anyone with Chauvin's experience as a police officer could be in ANY doubt about what was happening.

Why couldn't force have been used to get him inside the police car?

Why couldn't the killer have asked Floyd if he would get into the police car without resisting after Floyd said he couldn't breathe the 2nd or 3rd time?

Why didn't killer Chauvin ask Floyd if he would get into the police car without resisting after Floyd said he couldn't breathe the 9th or 10th time?

Or at least sometime before the TWENTIETH TIME???

George Floyd told officers 'I can't breathe' more than 20 times, transcripts show
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... nt-breathe

What do you suppose Killer Chauvin was trying to accomplish by holding Floyd there so long, hmmm?
Yes, I've seen it.  Are you saying that you believe the cop would have still knelt on his neck if he had not resisted arrest and peacefully and willingly entered the police car?  Didn't you see him fighting the cops to avoid being put in the car?  Who was kneeling on his neck then?  Don't you think the cops would have heeded his claim about not being able to breathe had he done so?  Of course he was out of breath after fighting 3 policemen while handcuffed!  ANYONE would be!  He also complained that his stomach hurt.  You don't fight several police as hard as you possibly can while handcuffed and already in pain or out of breath.  And after telling the cops he wasn't on any drugs, how would they be able to determine his life was in danger, which it was the moment he intentionally swallowed a lethal dose of fentanyl?  All they had was a criminal resisting arrest against at least 3 cops.  You think this was the first time that the cops ever heard a criminal complain about some pain in order to be taken to the hospital instead of being incarcerated?  You're asking the police to be experienced doctors in order to make the proper diagnosis of a criminal any time one is arrested, and that simply isn't realistic.
 

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Zeets2 » 01 Apr 2021, 1:02 pm » wrote: Yes, I've seen it.  Are you saying that you believe the cop would have still knelt on his neck if he had not resisted arrest and peacefully and willingly entered the police car?  Didn't you see him fighting the cops to avoid being put in the car?  Who was kneeling on his neck then?  Don't you think the cops would have heeded his claim about not being able to breathe had he done so?  Of course he was out of breath after fighting 3 policemen while handcuffed!  ANYONE would be!  He also complained that his stomach hurt.  You don't fight several police as hard as you possibly can while handcuffed and already in pain or out of breath.  And after telling the cops he wasn't on any drugs, how would they be able to determine his life was in danger, which it was the moment he intentionally swallowed a lethal dose of fentanyl?  All they had was a criminal resisting arrest against at least 3 cops.  You think this was the first time that the cops ever heard a criminal complain about some pain in order to be taken to the hospital instead of being incarcerated?  You're asking the police to be experienced doctors in order to make the proper diagnosis of a criminal any time one is arrested, and that simply isn't realistic.
How long would be too long to kneel on his neck?  Is 30 minutes too long?  An hour?

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Blue Devil » 01 Apr 2021, 12:59 pm » wrote: he was already restrained.  

homicide is a broad term

I just don’t know how you can prove Chauvin’s intent given Floyd’s behavior
I have already said I don't think Chauvin intended to kill him.
Also, the charges don't need intent.
It's willful disregard.

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Neo » 01 Apr 2021, 12:51 pm » wrote: Too many baseless assumptions to address. He obviously did not have much weight on Floyd as he was able to move and speak pretty freely. There was no damage found from the knee at autopsy. He was conscious and responsive for most of the time he was on the ground.
The medical examiner said it contributed to his death and was a homicide

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Zeets2 » 01 Apr 2021, 1:02 pm » wrote: Yes, I've seen it.  Are you saying that you believe the cop would have still knelt on his neck if he had not resisted arrest and peacefully and willingly entered the police car?  Didn't you see him fighting the cops to avoid being put in the car?  Who was kneeling on his neck then?  Don't you think the cops would have heeded his claim about not being able to breathe had he done so?  Of course he was out of breath after fighting 3 policemen while handcuffed!  ANYONE would be!  He also complained that his stomach hurt.  You don't fight several police as hard as you possibly can while handcuffed and already in pain or out of breath.  And after telling the cops he wasn't on any drugs, how would they be able to determine his life was in danger, which it was the moment he intentionally swallowed a lethal dose of fentanyl?  All they had was a criminal resisting arrest against at least 3 cops.  You think this was the first time that the cops ever heard a criminal complain about some pain in order to be taken to the hospital instead of being incarcerated?  You're asking the police to be experienced doctors in order to make the proper diagnosis of a criminal any time one is arrested, and that simply isn't realistic.
 
He resisted aggressively being put in the car.
Even after the police said they would open a window, etc.
They put him on the ground and further restrained him.
They had the appliance out to hog tie him, but it was never used.
Instead Chauvin chose to kneel on his neck.
No one asked him if he was willing to go in the car in all that time.
Why not kneel on him until he calmed down and give him a chance to get in the car?
Why not hog tie him and throw him in the car?
There were other options.
Chauvin chose to keep kneeling on him after he was calm.
He chose to keep his knee on his neck even after the paramedics arrived and motioned him off.
Bad choices have consequences.

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Neo » 01 Apr 2021, 12:41 pm » wrote: Correct, he died on scene but was kept alive for an hour using mechanical means. He officially was declared dead in the hospital. 
 
Yes.
But earlier you said he died at the hospital .
Now we know was clinically dead at the scene.

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AnnoyedLiberall » 01 Apr 2021, 12:38 pm » wrote: Homicide is the cause of death.
The autopsy also says there were no life ending injuries noted on the body.
I am hoping that we can get better answers to these questions as medical experts testify.
The police chief of Minneapolis is slated to testify tomorrow.
I hope he has some answers as to the restraint tactic used.
The thing is as martial artists know when you stop the blood flow to the brain with what is called a chokehold though it does not stop breathing there is NO longterm damage. You do not have to even leave bruises.  If the bloodflow is stopped or even lessened too much for too long that COULD cause death without leaving actual injuries to the neck.
 

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Autopsy report for anyone who hasn't read it.
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepi ... 6-3-20.pdf

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