End Game in Ukraine

[Skans]

Skans said:

Putin is more than willing to turn Ukraine into a meat grinder for his own people. He won't stop.

Why should he.  Putin has no real opposition.  Biden is a weak turd who has done nothing.  Europe is uninterested - they just want everyone to forget about it so they can resume getting cheap oil and gas from Russia.  Your president is a lame-*** retard.  His weakness, no YOUR weakness is directly responsible for Putin's "meat-grinder".
 

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

So what's the threat to Putin in the Black Sea? Perhaps you can enlighten me with the naval stipulations of the sea and tell me why Putin seemed threatened militarily and needed Crimea. He barely has a navy as it is.

He has a nuclear navy. The base in Crimea, which was on long term lease from Ukraine, was threatned when obama's administration overthrew the government of Ukraine and implanted a western agent as Ukrain's head of state.

You really should not be saying **** about this subject. Its pretty clear that you don't know anything about it.

I can see the regime wanting to keep its friends in power in Ukraine and make it a vassal state. Tell me that isn't reciprocal too for a man who wanted the US to free an international arms dealer for him.

The US left important people behind in Russia's gulag - actual agents -, to rescue a woman for being black and lesbian. You really shouldn't bring up that terrible trade. You should feel SOME shame about it. We have tens of THOUSANDS in our gulags for weed charges, stewp. Think about it, FFS. Our OWN PRISONS are full of marijuana offenders. Not to mention, there are dozens of Americans in Russian prisons for trying to enter the country with weed - they just aren't black lesbians. They aren't important. 

Two to tango. And yes, I'm not really versed in how the law of the sea is enforced, that is not my strong suit.

Do you know WHO enforces it?

It's whoever has the guns.

In the black sea, that's Putin. He wants to keep it like that. His naval base seemed important to him. He took that ******* before obama's deep state had time to get their installed puppet to move on it. Smart man.

Every war is over market. You obviously suppose wars are fought for principles, for freedom, for honorable reasons - and this in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence.

To get to the market, you need control of sea lanes. Ot to be allied with those who control them. The chinese and the Russians and the Iranians face the same issues as the Colonists in pre- and post-revolutionary times. Just as the British cut the Colonists off from trade unless they got a cut, the US cuts off Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba. They also cut Russia off from trade - you may have heard about this under the brand name "sanctions."

One sanction was to blow up the Nordstream pipeline, preventing Putin from selling gas. Did it **** on some of our colonists? Some very cold Germans will respond in the affirmative. But they did it anyway. And they tried to sieze Putins biggest and most strategically critical naval base - and they failed. What is happening NOW in Ukraine is a continuation of that self defense.

Backing nuclear powers into corners is stupid. But here we are - and the puppet masters who feed you with illusions really do not care about the carnage. It's no longer ABOUT mere filthy lucre. It's about reset - and WWIII is a marvelous opportunity for that.

I do know he wanted to own that strait imperially. I guess he thought some country might invade Russia from the sea when they have an arsenal of nuclear weapons.

Why would they need to invade from the sea, when they took over the government of Ukraine to give them a land route? That doesn't even make any sense.

But yes - having the black sea would aid immensely in a military invasion of Russia. If you don't understand that, I am not shocked. 

[Varnaj42]

Varnaj42 said:

Everyone knows that wars end. A perpetual state of conflict is not possible. I have a question about the end of the Ukraine conflict. Will Ukraine give Russia territorial concessions of parts of the pre war borders? The experts are pretty split on this right now. What will really make the difference is where the war heads next. Spring is probably going to be the real test when Russia sends more troops in my opinion. Will there be a settlement or a demand by Ukraine to not give an inch of territory?

The trouble is twofold.   First, Russia began the hostilities back in 2014 then resumed them just eleven months ago.   Should gifts be given to this aggressor?   The problem is not Russia.  The problem is Putin who clearly wants to re-establish the Soviet Union.   Too many have died for this war to end short of victory.   Putin hasn't long to go in power.   His own will vanquish him before long.  And then?   There will be room for negotiation however the promise made to the Ukrainian people regarding the restoration of original borders should never be set aside.

I will say only one good thing about Putin.  He stands opposed to the globalists.  Soros and company would love to see him gone.  This is true but it should have no bearing on the question of the current war.   In the end Putin will be deposed but the new Russian government will still be opposed to globalism.  in this I agree.  

In the future I can see a strong possibility of a new Russia joining with China to preserve their joint interests against the global dictator that will soon emerge.  And what then?   Who will win that contest?   It will be interesting.

[Nostradamus' omh]

Nostradamus' omh said:

Everyone knows that wars end. A perpetual state of conflict is not possible. I have a question about the end of the Ukraine conflict. Will Ukraine give Russia territorial concessions of parts of the pre war borders? The experts are pretty split on this right now. What will really make the difference is where the war heads next. Spring is probably going to be the real test when Russia sends more troops in my opinion. Will there be a settlement or a demand by Ukraine to not give an inch of territory?

everyone knows extinction eventually arrives, question is, which rotation of the planet does it happen? What 5 generations were last to live in the atmosphere.

Eternity comes from things perpetually balancing as a new compounding total sum arriving as currently taking place, past, present, next generations already added one lifetime at a time now.

Evolving is an eternal process between inorganic erosion and ancestral lifetimes decomposing. Contracting results expand the time details advance never staying total sum achieved individually occupying space forward from now.

the kinetics are self evident. hope, faith, charity promising better tomorrrows than reproduction achieved so far allows a chain of command social order where 1% directs the 99% to obey ideas that will eventually destroy their own species.

Natural point of no return to self fulfilling prohecies is when each ancestral lineage doesn't add another great great grandchild again. Every lifetime arrives a great great grandchild replacing 30 lifetimes of their previous chain of reproductive compounding DNA.

See, in real time there can never be a missing link between 5 generation gaps alive. 16, 8, 4, 2, each added ancestor, might become 1 of 2 parents, could reach 1 of 4 grandparents, would make 1 of 8 when grandchildren become 1 of 2 parents.

You get the picture evolving through it yourselves. But why doesn't everyone become honest about now being eternity? Everyone would have to admit they were fooled every generation.

Pride comes before the downfall(self inflicted extinction as a species).

[Bob]

Bob said:

Everyone knows that wars end. A perpetual state of conflict is not possible. I have a question about the end of the Ukraine conflict. Will Ukraine give Russia territorial concessions of parts of the pre war borders? The experts are pretty split on this right now. What will really make the difference is where the war heads next. Spring is probably going to be the real test when Russia sends more troops in my opinion. Will there be a settlement or a demand by Ukraine to not give an inch of territory?

 USA has little or no manufacturing, few or zero stocked fallout shelters and very few locally produced medical supplies. Once and a while there are stories about body bag imports and storage.  60 year war on the USA population with no end in sight, guilty and punished until proven to be experimentally injected and working for a control freak corporation commune that thinks it has become a new feudal overlord-God. Somewhere around two hundred thousand people dead as Ukraine random bombs civilians, bombs nuclear power plants and attacks nuclear armed air force bases a few miles south of Moscow, etc.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A2Gmiya-Uk&t=57s

[Skans]

Skans said:

I am more concerned with the open border between the USA and Mexico.
Problems like Fentanyl, heroine, oxy, etc. and human trafficking and forced prostitution that impact America.
From my house to Kiev is 5,817 mi. From my house to the border of Mexico is 494 miles.
I am concerned about things "in my backyard".

Agreed.  Eventhough I support Ukraine's independence from Russia, I am more concerned about our own border.  We should be shooting to kill anything that moves even close to the border without permission. Awww, screw permission.  Military should shoot to kill anything within 20 miles south of the US-Mexican border.   We owe them!!!
 

[Xavier_Onassis]

Xavier_Onassis said:

Which ones, mouth? What ethnicities is it Russian policy to murder?

Here's a thought, when you find you have no answer: Shut your vapid penis intake, stupe.

Chechens, Georgians. Ingushetians, anyone who Putin thinks poses a threat to him, he murders.
The usual method involves chucking those who might lead an opposition to Putin out of windows.
He is very fond of defenestration;.
 Putin is a tyrant. Ukrainians have the right to govern themselves.
And you are a blithering dolt.
 

[Monderegal]

Monderegal said:

He has a nuclear navy. The base in Crimea, which was on long term lease from Ukraine, was threatned when obama's administration overthrew the government of Ukraine and implanted a western agent as Ukrain's head of state.

You really should not be saying **** about this subject. Its pretty clear that you don't know anything about it.

The US left important people behind in Russia's gulag - actual agents -, to rescue a woman for being black and lesbian. You really shouldn't bring up that terrible trade. You should feel SOME shame about it. We have tens of THOUSANDS in our gulags for weed charges, stewp. Think about it, FFS. Our OWN PRISONS are full of marijuana offenders. Not to mention, there are dozens of Americans in Russian prisons for trying to enter the country with weed - they just aren't black lesbians. They aren't important. 

Do you know WHO enforces it?

It's whoever has the guns.

In the black sea, that's Putin. He wants to keep it like that. His naval base seemed important to him. He took that ******* before obama's deep state had time to get their installed puppet to move on it. Smart man.

Every war is over market. You obviously suppose wars are fought for principles, for freedom, for honorable reasons - and this in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence.

To get to the market, you need control of sea lanes. Ot to be allied with those who control them. The chinese and the Russians and the Iranians face the same issues as the Colonists in pre- and post-revolutionary times. Just as the British cut the Colonists off from trade unless they got a cut, the US cuts off Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba. They also cut Russia off from trade - you may have heard about this under the brand name "sanctions."

One sanction was to blow up the Nordstream pipeline, preventing Putin from selling gas. Did it **** on some of our colonists? Some very cold Germans will respond in the affirmative. But they did it anyway. And they tried to sieze Putins biggest and most strategically critical naval base - and they failed. What is happening NOW in Ukraine is a continuation of that self defense.

Backing nuclear powers into corners is stupid. But here we are - and the puppet masters who feed you with illusions really do not care about the carnage. It's no longer ABOUT mere filthy lucre. It's about reset - and WWIII is a marvelous opportunity for that.

Why would they need to invade from the sea, when they took over the government of Ukraine to give them a land route? That doesn't even make any sense.

But yes - having the black sea would aid immensely in a military invasion of Russia. If you don't understand that, I am not shocked.

I kind of understand what you're saying about all of that. Still, Russia was a benefiting partner in the global regime. Yes, and I think that was a global world order after the Cold War. From what I understand Russia was set to become the 5th largest nation in wealth in GDP in the world. Russia instead became a rouge actor with the sentiment you have provided. This wasn't about self defense in my view. It was an act of historic revisionism and placing Russia on stead with the former USSR that Putin holds so dearly to. I don't think the West was set to colonize Russia. They even invited Russia to form a G8 instead of a G7 at one point.
People are dying in Ukraine now. Hospitals and schools are finding themselves on the other side of drones. I don't really see the purpose of that other than a leader with wounded pride and animosity toward a global structure that ultimately benefits everyone. This isn't really colonialism other than the world is run by international rule of law that provides benefits. The world is set to end global hunger and poverty in the near future due to all of this and Russia was also a beneficiary before the brutality they showed towards Ukraine.

[SJConspirator]

SJConspirator said:

Chechens, Georgians. Ingushetians, anyone who Putin thinks poses a threat to him, he murders.
The usual method involves chucking those who might lead an opposition to Putin out of windows.
He is very fond of defenestration;.
 Putin is a tyrant. Ukrainians have the right to govern themselves.
And you are a blithering dolt.

hey I have jumped out of first floor windows, not a big deal

Zelensky has jailed or killed all opposition leaders and journalists not friendly to his regime.  That’s your champion of “democracy”?  You support THAT while calling others tyrants?

[Monderegal]

Monderegal said:

I doubt if 3 people know what you are talking about

did you ever see this?

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/09/29/eu-p ... ferendums/

Actually he is absolutely right. Eastern provinces of Ukraine consider themselves ethnic Russians and there has been a conflict in that region since 2014 prior to the full scale invasion 11 months ago. There were two peace deals called Minsk I and Minsk II that were abandoned in the ceasefire stage. Both sides of that conflict blamed the other one for violating the terms. Then Putin tried to annex all of Ukraine flagrantly which is the full scale conflict the world is now witnessing. . 

[Mrkelly]

Mrkelly said:

Actually he is absolutely right. Eastern provinces of Ukraine consider themselves ethnic Russians and there has been a conflict in that region since 2014 prior to the full scale invasion 11 months ago. There were two peace deals called Minsk I and Minsk II that were abandoned in the ceasefire stage. Both sides of that conflict blamed the other one for violating the terms. Then Putin tried to annex all of Ukraine flagrantly which is the full scale conflict the world is now witnessing. .

I know all that

did you go to that link?   People are prosecuted for observing the referendums in the east

[Monderegal]

Monderegal said:

I know all that

did you go to that link?   People are prosecuted for observing the referendums in the east

The problem with those referendums is that they are not internationally recognized. Putin decided to call for a referendum in a war zone to entrench his foothold into those regions. Global partners, including Russia, would probably be required for an international recognition of the provinces as part of Russia or independent states in accordance with international law. That's the issue that I'm offering. Should Ukraine keep all its pre war internationally recognized boundaries or perhaps recognize the Donbas provinces as part of Russia proper. 

[Mrkelly]

Mrkelly said:

The problem with those referendums is that they are not internationally recognized. Putin decided to call for a referendum in a war zone to entrench his foothold into those regions. Global partners, including Russia, would probably be required for an international recognition of the provinces as part of Russia or independent states in accordance with international law. That's the issue that I'm offering. Should Ukraine keep all its pre war internationally recognized boundaries or perhaps recognize the Donbas provinces as part of Russia proper.

at least the referendums show the the people want to remain Russian 

Ukraine needs to stop bombing the Donbas Region and let them be 

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

Chechens, Georgians. Ingushetians, anyone who Putin thinks poses a threat to him, he murders.
The usual method involves chucking those who might lead an opposition to Putin out of windows.
He is very fond of defenestration;.
 Putin is a tyrant. Ukrainians have the right to govern themselves.
And you are a blithering dolt.

1.  Chucking someone out a window is NOT defenstration. Do not attempt big words. You're not that guy. 
2. Killing the odd Georgian and having a policy to kill Georgians are two different things. I am genuinely sorry for you that you cannot think more clearly. 
3. Of COURSE Putin is a tyrant, you simple-minded hick. Who the **** else could run Russia for the entire first quarter of this century - Mother Teresa, you midway rube? ALL great men are tyrants. Name one who wasn't, tard. You think FDR - the man who gave this nation first world status, empire status, the biggest middle class in the history of nation states - you think THAT guy was not a magnificent beast, not a tyrant? If you do, you're an idiot with zero knowledge of recent history. 
 

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

I kind of understand what you're saying about all of that. Still, Russia was a benefiting partner in the global regime.

No. Russia was a benefitting partner in the PREVIOUS global regime. The USSR did some serious pillaging under the previous regime - as did the NATO alliance. But the USSR's oligarchy got sold out by gorby, and Russia became a kleptocracy. Putin came in a decade and a clownshow later (google,"Boris Yeltsin") and put a stop to that ****. He worked very, very hard and very, very patiently to rebuild Russia as a functional nation state. 

The western press labeled HIM a kleptocrat, for ending the kleptocracy that benefitted the west's oligarchs (yes, we have oligarchs).

Yes, and I think that was a global world order after the Cold War. From what I understand Russia was set to become the 5th largest nation in wealth in GDP in the world. Russia instead became a rouge actor with the sentiment you have provided. This wasn't about self defense in my view. It was an act of historic revisionism and placing Russia on stead with the former USSR that Putin holds so dearly to. I don't think the West was set to colonize Russia. They even invited Russia to form a G8 instead of a G7 at one point.

Russia offered to join NATO. NATO said no, because it raison d'etre is to sack Russia and steal its wealth.

Russia began the century on its knees - sacked by internal and external oligarchs. Putin rebuilt Russia's capacity and integrity to the point that Russia defeated the U.S. in the Syrian proxy war.

Google "Bashar al-Assad." You will learn that America's INTENDED, DECLARED regime change did not occur.

People are dying in Ukraine now.

People are dying in post-vax America now. Women are being forcibly imprisoned with convicted male rapists. We recently saw cities burned and looted, cops gunned by angry mobs in RACE RIOTS; Hundreds die weekly in gang murders. Maybe your nose belongs in your own backyard. Let's get OUR house in order, and then take on the planet. 

Hospitals and schools are finding themselves on the other side of drones. I don't really see the purpose of that other than a leader with wounded pride and animosity toward a global structure that ultimately benefits everyone.

Perhaps the media that inform your opinions aren't being honest.

This isn't really colonialism other than the world is run by international rule of law that provides benefits.

Please list the colonizers who did not provide benefits, yet still managed to colonize. I'll start the list for you:

1. Fantasy Land
2.
3.

The world is set to end global hunger and poverty in the near future due to all of this and Russia was also a beneficiary before the brutality they showed towards Ukraine.

Yes, global poverty and hunger has continued to decline as global population has RISEN - unlike the narrative you have been fed. Thanks for noticing an actual fact in this post. Indeed, you could likely super-impose charts of hunger decreasing and global human population rising and see a direct correlation - as if the one tracked the other. As if humans were resources and not a cancer or a pollutant or a crisis.

Russia responding to U.S. and NATO aggression will not be the reason that trend is reversed. The machinations of the people who control the information you consume will be at cause in the matter. Russians will be at effect (though not nearly as much as western nations, as Russians have a leader).

 
 

[Deezer Shoove]

Deezer Shoove said: Other than a reason to **** with Russia, who really gives a **** about Ukraine?

Its borders are lines on a map that really don't seem to be of any major concern.
The area has been overrun countless times.

Is there really a "Ukrainian" people?
Seems more like Russians and other surrounding countries' overspill.

Why is it suddenly the most important thing on Earth to worry about?
I smell fish...

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

Other than a reason to **** with Russia, who really gives a **** about Ukraine?

Its borders are lines on a map that really don't seem to be of any major concern.
The area has been overrun countless times.

Is there really a "Ukrainian" people?
Seems more like Russians and other surrounding countries' overspill.

Why is it suddenly the most important thing on Earth to worry about?
I smell fish...

The obvious answer is that we are so on top of our own **** that we have time to help other folks manage theirs. 

I could see complaining about the billions spent in what has for more than a decade been considered the most corrupt country in Europe - a true kleptocracy, if we had any use of those billions here in the USA. But why piddle those dollars away on medical or education or retirement for people already over-blessed with such?
 
Mind you, there IS a good argument that we ought to sort gender within our own borders before we go about sorting border disputes on far away continents. But I say why quibble - just send the money to ukraine. I can ASSURE you, some of it DOES come back, in the form of dark money. Snicker. 

[FOS]

FOS said:

The trouble is twofold.   First, Russia began the hostilities back in 2014 then resumed them just eleven months ago.   Should gifts be given to this aggressor?   The problem is not Russia.  The problem is Putin who clearly wants to re-establish the Soviet Union.   Too many have died for this war to end short of victory.   Putin hasn't long to go in power.   His own will vanquish him before long.  And then?   There will be room for negotiation however the promise made to the Ukrainian people regarding the restoration of original borders should never be set aside.

I will say only one good thing about Putin.  He stands opposed to the globalists.  Soros and company would love to see him gone.  This is true but it should have no bearing on the question of the current war.   In the end Putin will be deposed but the new Russian government will still be opposed to globalism.  in this I agree.  

In the future I can see a strong possibility of a new Russia joining with China to preserve their joint interests against the global dictator that will soon emerge.  And what then?   Who will win that contest?   It will be interesting.

dude...the 2014 coup was the USA toppling an elected president of ukraine who wanted to form closer ties to russia instead of europe.

putin did not cause that...but it would be dishonorable for him to not assist his allies

putin clearly does not was to recreate the soviet union. He is very close to the orthodox church...

[Varnaj42]

Varnaj42 said:

dude...the 2014 coup was the USA toppling an elected president of ukraine who wanted to form closer ties to russia instead of europe.

putin did not cause that...but it would be dishonorable for him to not assist his allies

putin clearly does not was to recreate the soviet union. He is very close to the orthodox church...

It was not a coup that moved Crimea to Russia.  It was Putin who did that.  Was there involvement of the US?   How so?  Can you prove that statement or are you just repeating what you've heard? 

I will clarify about the Soviet Union.  I believe that Putin wants to restore the geographical boundaries that were present with the Soviet Union.  I did not mean to say he wanted the return of communism.   Russia has long used geography to protect itself.   It was the seemingly endless stretches of plains in the winter time that defeated Napoleon and later Hitler.   Now the Baltic states and Poland and Ukraine are aligned with the west.  This means that an enemy would have a much easier time invading and conquering Russia.  This, and this alone, is why Putin wants Ukraine back.   If he succeeds he will turn his eyes north to Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.   Believe me.  He will.  

Putin's dreams are based on fear.   This is never a healthy way to lead.  Fear is weakness.  Confidence is strength.

[Taipan]

Taipan said:

Everyone knows that wars end. A perpetual state of conflict is not possible. I have a question about the end of the Ukraine conflict. Will Ukraine give Russia territorial concessions of parts of the pre war borders? The experts are pretty split on this right now. What will really make the difference is where the war heads next. Spring is probably going to be the real test when Russia sends more troops in my opinion. Will there be a settlement or a demand by Ukraine to not give an inch of territory?

I am demanding "peace-talks".