for folks who eschew actual arguments and prefer to embrace catty, substance-free insults, I really don't want to waste any of MY time or cause them to waste any of theirs. You are just as fluffy and devoid of any modicum of seriousness here as you were/are on the dot org site. disappointing, to be sure, but certainly not a surprise.
maineman » 24 Jan 2023, 5:50 pm » wrote: ↑
D-Day invasion documents are declassified. In fact, D-Day documents were NEVER classified to begin with for the mere fact that the entire system of document classification did not even exist until the Truman administration.
maineman » 25 Jan 2023, 1:34 pm » wrote: ↑
But, in today's world, let's say there was a document that, just for the sake of this argument, contained a list of all of the CIA's embedded sleeper agents within the Soviet government. That document would undoubtedly be classified TS (SCI). Now...if some, soon-to-be-ex-president were to declare that such a document were magically "declassified" because he happened to THINK about declassifying it, and then, as his successor was being inaugurated, he took said "declassified" document to his private residence and, let's say, shared it with a Russian oligarch who he had invited to dinner to discuss a new office complex he was hoping to build in Moscow and with which he needed the oligarch's assistance with financing.
Do YOU feel that, because the document had been "declassified" by the former president, that sharing it with the oligarch would NOT be a violation of the Espionage Act? Y/N?
Well... I would argue that the Espionage Act was written before the practice of document classification was even invented. The classification of the document is irrelevant. The only deciding factor is whether or not divulging the information contained IN the document could be used for the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation. Therefore... Trump, as president, might very well have been legally capable of "declassifying" any document, but Trump the former president and now private citizen can NOT divulge information that could hurt the United States or help another country, regardless of whether or not that document was technically classified or not.Monderegal » 25 Jan 2023, 1:43 pm » wrote: ↑
Well I would like to mention I'm not defending the behavior. If Trump declassified a document as President and shared that information with an adversary he might have legal justification. That's not to say the behavior would be atrocious, If he shared a "classified" document as a private citizen things would be different. He would not be in the capacity to declassify it. Therefore you could probably apply the espionage act. I would like to note that comes from a rudimentary understanding of the classification system and the espionage act. From that understanding though, that would be my best guess. You could also probably bring in corruption investigations if he shared classified information for a personal economic gain.maineman » 25 Jan 2023, 1:51 pm » wrote: ↑
It is my assertion that the nature of information that can cause harm to the United States is not dependent upon classification. He might be legally capable, as President, to declassify something, but, as a former President he has no right to allow any information to be used to harm the US or to help another country.Monderegal » 25 Jan 2023, 2:03 pm » wrote: ↑
maineman » 25 Jan 2023, 3:01 pm » wrote: ↑
that's incorrect. As I said, the Espionage Act doesn't even MENTION classification. It only forbids the disclosure of information that could harm the US. Clearly, disclosing a list of US foreign agents who were moles inside the Russian government would - WITHOUT QUESTION - harm the US.
Who was he on dot.org?maineman » 24 Jan 2023, 8:07 pm » wrote: ↑
maineman » 25 Jan 2023, 3:09 pm » wrote: ↑
maineman » 25 Jan 2023, 3:09 pm » wrote: ↑
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