The Post-carbon Society

Started by z_luzhina

Debate the issues that are the valued by liberals in this political chat forum. Try to stay on topic and respect your fellow liberals. We all feel strongly about certain issues. Keep that in mind as you debate with your peersin the liberal forum. Forum Rules

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Posted by Cannonpointer
  14,350 31 Aug 2017, 1:06 am

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O.E. » 30 Aug 2017 4:37 pm wrote:
Cannonpointer » 27 Aug 2017 9:56 pm wrote:
Your plan - not yet publicized - IS the catastrophe, I will warrant. So far, one aspect of your plan - lowered birth rates - has resulted in more atmospheric carbon by a factor of 80-plus, in the example of Thailand.

Cuckoo.
You've got real chops, kid.
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Posted by Lindsey
  18 30 Oct 2017, 5:28 pm

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z_luzhina » 18 Aug 2017 10:58 pm wrote:
Whether you think that climate change is an important issue or not....whether you are even aware of other environmental problems, such as ocean acidification, biodiversity loss, etc.....you (if you are a reasonably rational person) will have to recognize that we will not be able to use fossil fuels (oil, gas, coal) indefinitely.

But this poses an enormous problem, when one considers that.........our civilization is based on fossil fuels, indeed cannot survive without them.

One of the few really good things GW Bush did during his eight years in office was owning up to the fact that "we are addicted to fossil fuels". In a SOTU, in 2006 or thereabouts.

Anyways. The purpose of this thread is to discuss what kind of society we should strive for, after we stop using FFs.

People I have found worth reading on this issue include:

John Michael Greer
James Howard Kunstler
Bill McKibben
Richard Heinberg
David Fleming

...among others.

I will discuss each of them in turn..........


Did you know the term "fossil fuel" was born from a Russian scientist in the 1800's? Despite science finding out later that oil, nat gas, coal, are not fossil fuels, the term stuck as the few who controlled these resources liked the idea of the term as it infers a sense of scarcity. They're carbon based fuels and fossils have nothing to do with it. Although C02 levels are rising, it isn't from burning fossil fuels.
C02 is rising because vast areas of what were once C02 eaters/02 creators, have been removed from earth.

And that's the truth of the matter.
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Posted by Cannonpointer
  14,350 31 Oct 2017, 8:32 pm

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Lindsey » 30 Oct 2017 5:28 pm wrote:

Did you know the term "fossil fuel" was born from a Russian scientist in the 1800's? Despite science finding out later that oil, nat gas, coal, are not fossil fuels, the term stuck as the few who controlled these resources liked the idea of the term as it infers a sense of scarcity. They're carbon based fuels and fossils have nothing to do with it. Although C02 levels are rising, it isn't from burning fossil fuels.
C02 is rising because vast areas of what were once C02 eaters/02 creators, have been removed from earth.

And that's the truth of the matter.
The fellow to whom you respond has fled the board in the face of having his "facts" controverted and used against him.

As to whether so-called fossil fuels are in fact not fossils, I'd like to see your proofs on that. I've long suspected this is the case, but I'm not aware that there are many scientists in agreement.
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Posted by Cannonpointer
  14,350 31 Oct 2017, 8:35 pm

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Cannonpointer » 23 Aug 2017 3:21 am wrote:
O.E. » 19 Aug 2017 5:13 pm wrote:

Clusterfuck Nation – Blog
July 10, 2017

We’re Good People, Really We Are!

The disgrace of America’s putative intellectual class is nearly complete as it shoves the polity further into dysfunction and toward collapse. These are the people Nassim Taleb refers to as “intellectuals-yet-idiots.” Big questions loom over this dynamic: How did the thinking class of America sink into this slough of thoughtlessness? And why – what is motivating them?

One path to understanding it can be found in this sober essay by Neal Devers, The Overton Bubble, published two years ago on TheFuturePrimaeval.net — a friend turned me on to it the other day (dunno how I missed it). The title is a reference to the phenomenon known as the Overton Window. Wikipedia summarizes it:

Devers refines the definition:

This raises another question: who exactly is in this corps of “respectable people” who set the parameters of acceptable thought? Primarily, the mainstream media — The New York Times, The WashPo, CNN, etc. — plus the bureaucratic functionaries of the permanent government bureaucracy, a.k.a. the Deep State, who make and execute policy, along with the universities which educate the “respectable people” (the thinking class) into the prevailing dogmas and shibboleths of the day, and finally the think tanks and foundations that pay professional “experts” to retail their ideas.

The Overton Window can be viewed as a mechanism of political control, demonizing anyone who departs from the consensus of respectable thought, and especially if they express their heresies in public speech. This has consequences.

Deavers explains:

We’re now living under that condition of “intellectual martial law.” The consequent degradation of thinking means that the polity can’t construct a coherent consensus about what is happening to it (or devise a plan for what to do about it). This is exactly the point where the Overton Window turns into an Overton Bubble, as described by Devers. The bubble comprises ideas that are assumed to be self-evident (though they actually aren’t) and notions that are potentially destructive of society, even suicidally so. Here is a partial list of the current dogmas and shibboleths inside today’s Overton Bubble:

Ꜿ Russia hacked the election of 2016 (no evidence required).
Ꜿ Russia (Vladimir Putin in particular) is bent on destroying the USA.
Ꜿ All immigrants, legal or illegal, have equal status before the law.
Ꜿ National borders are inconvenient, cruel, and obsolete.
Ꜿ Western Civilization is a malign force in human history.
Ꜿ Islam is “the religion of peace,” no matter how many massacres of “infidels” are carried out in its name.
Ꜿ Men are a negative force in society.
Ꜿ White men are especially negative.
Ꜿ Brownie points given for behaviors under the rubric LBGTQ.
Ꜿ All discussion about race problems and conflicts is necessarily racist.
Ꜿ The hijab (head covering worn in public by some Muslim women) is a device of liberation for women.
Ꜿ There should be a law against using the wrong personal pronoun for people who consider themselves neither men nor women (recently passed by the Canadian parliament).
Ꜿ A unifying common culture is unnecessary in national life (anything goes).
Ꜿ Colonizing Mars is a great solution to problems on Earth.

That list defines the general preoccupations of the thinking classes today — to the exclusion of other issues. Here is an alternative list of matters they are not generally concerned about or interested in:

Ꜿ The energy quandary at the heart of our economic malaise.
Ꜿ The enormous debt racked up to run society in the absence of affordable energy inputs.
Ꜿ The dangerous interventions and manipulation in markets by unelected officials of the Federal Reserve.
Ꜿ The extraordinary dysfunction of manipulated financial markets.
Ꜿ The fragility of a banking system based on accounting fraud.
Ꜿ The dysfunction and fragility of the American suburban living arrangement.
Ꜿ The consequences of a catastrophic breakdown in the economy due to the above.
Ꜿ The destruction of planetary ecology, threatening the continuation of the human race, and potentially all life.

______________________________________________

I guess I sort of understand what the man is aiming at, but, frankly, he appears to be a bit of a crackpot, no?

But yeah, I do like "The Clusterfuck Nation".
Help me out.

Do you find the ideas on the first list "crackpot," or the ideas on the second list - or is it some from both lists?
Here's another who fled - I threatened his wiggle room with direct questions.
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Posted by Lindsey
  18 01 Nov 2017, 4:29 pm

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Cannonpointer » 31 Oct 2017 8:32 pm wrote:
The fellow to whom you respond has fled the board in the face of having his "facts" controverted and used against him.

As to whether so-called fossil fuels are in fact not fossils, I'd like to see your proofs on that. I've long suspected this is the case, but I'm not aware that there are many scientists in agreement.


It may be a week or two but I'll dig up those resources and put them up here.
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