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By Vegas
28 Apr 2021, 7:23 pm in No Holds Barred Political Forum
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Vegas

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Vegasgiants » 29 Apr 2021, 5:20 pm » wrote: Drug addiction is curable.  A gun death is not

If we were 25 times the death rate in ANY OTHER CATEGORY it would be a national emergency. 

Why is ONLY THIS CATEGORY OF DEATH where this is ok?

Drug addiction is not curable yet, it is treatable, but not curable. Also, the deaths from OD are twice as high as the gun violence. 
In 2019, 70,630 drug overdose deaths occurred in the United States. 

Another 19.7 million are addicts, and will OD if they can't stop.


https://americanaddictioncenters.org/re ... statistics

https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/statedeaths.html
 

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Vegasgiants » 29 Apr 2021, 5:33 pm » wrote: Pretty comparable with other countries.......now if they were 25 times higher......

And thus my point is made

Your point is not relevant. I never denied that we were 25 times higher. The point is that it is still .004%. Be it 25 times higher or 900 times higher. The point is moot and irrelevant. 


You need to address the the embarrassing small stat of .004%, compared to the alarming stat of 22% drug addicts across America. 

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Vegasgiants » 29 Apr 2021, 5:40 pm » wrote: Then 70,000 ods are moot.  These are all just tiny fractions.....right?

Legalize all drugs!!!!!!!!

True, but 27 million isn't a tiny fraction. These people are on their way to ODs unless they get help. The government isn't taking it serious. 

People are not on their way to gun deaths. 

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Vegasgiants » 29 Apr 2021, 5:45 pm » wrote: Would one million gun deaths a year be a serious problem in the US?

No. That is .0001%. That's even smaller.

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Vegas » 28 Apr 2021, 7:23 pm » wrote: No. 

Hypothesis: The number of gun deaths in America do not warrant a threat to America that should induce alarm. 

First, let me be specific to what I mean by a genuine threat by means of comparison. A current genuine threat to America would be the narcotics abuse throughout the country. This includes prescription drug addiction as well as illegal drugs. I want you to compare a ratio to you personally. How many of you , on a almost daily occurrence , have either directly or indirectly come across people who are addicted? This could be the homeless guy in passing, it could be a family member, a friend, a friend of a friend...Now, think about how often you come a cross a shooting. Compare the two. I am 50, I see addicts everywhere here, and I have never once witnessed a shooting. 

Therefore, when I say a genuine threat to America, I mean that the average American , on a regular basis, who is encountering this threat.. 

Let's start with some facts:

Fact 1: 61% of the gun deaths are from suicide, not some random shooting. This means that out of the 39,740 gun deaths in 2018, only 15,308 of the deaths were due to violent intentions toward others. Some of those were accidental. 

"There were 39,740 deaths from firearms in the U.S. in 2018. Sixty-one percent of deaths from firearms in the U.S. are suicides. In 2018, 24,432 people in the U.S. died by firearm suicide.1 Firearms are the means in approximately half of suicides nationwide."
https://health.ucdavis.edu/what-you-can ... nationwide.

Fact 2: The 15,308 makes up .004% of the population. Yes, the 4 is in the thousandths place, no typo. 

Fact 3: There are over 110 million gun owners in America, with over 300 million rounds of ammo.

Interpretation of these facts
Given these facts, I interpret this to mean that Americans are quite responsible with guns. .004% of the population is ridiculously small. It is so statistically irrelevant that it is not even worth mentioning. This makes sense give how rare it is that Americans, on average, come across a shooting. Our children aren't living in a society where they have run home everyday because they are dodging bullets. Mass shootings are extremely rare. They are so rare, that the news has to report them because it is 'new.' It's not an everyday thing. Gun deaths in America do not pose a genuine threat to Americans on average. Even the majority of the .004% are due to inner city gangs. The data does not support gun deaths as a threat. Period.

Conclusion
The data shows that American gun owners, overall, are responsible. .004% is not an alarming statistic. It's a laughable one. Our children are far more likely to run into someone who does drugs, are offered drugs, or get hooked on drugs. It's everywhere. It's in the inner city, it's in the upscale area, skid row, middle class..everywhere. Drug companies and docs contribute immensely to this problem.

In short, stop pushing gun laws and leave the second amendment alone for God sakes.
The OP is a blind reflection of Richard Dawkins'  "Dear Muslima" mistake. Just like it, it is saying, "Sit down and STFU", about guns rather than harassing & worse sexual behavior towards women by men. Like Dawkins' screed, it's **** that should be denigrated. It's also worth bringing up now and again to rub Vegas' nose into his own ****. Don't worry, it's roses to Vegas' nostrils.
 

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Vegasgiants » 29 Apr 2021, 5:51 pm » wrote: Read it again

One million gun deaths a year

 That comes to .3% as opposed to .004%. I would say yes then. That could be alarming because then a trend is showing. There is no trend at this time. It's not really rising at an alarming rate. 

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Phelix_Dacat » 29 Apr 2021, 5:56 pm » wrote: The OP is a blind reflection of Richard Dawkins'  "Dear Muslima" mistake. Just like it, it is saying, "Sit down and STFU", about guns rather than harassing & worse sexual behavior towards women by men. Like Dawkins' screed, it's **** that should be denigrated. It's also worth bringing up now and again to rub Vegas' nose into his own ****. Don't worry, it's roses to Vegas' nostrils.

Ok. Whatever. Let me know when you have something of substance. 

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Vegasgiants » 29 Apr 2021, 6:03 pm » wrote: That is a tiny fraction.  25 times other countries is not too high but now .3% is?

You are all over the map on this

I am not over the map on this. I said a trend would be showing. There is no trend with the gun violence. My argument is consistent. 

Why do you insist on bringing up the 25 times rate but refuse to acknowledge the .004%? That 25 times rate is included in the .004%. You have to address that, no matter what. 

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Vegas » 29 Apr 2021, 6:01 pm » wrote:
Phelix_Dacat » 29 Apr 2021, 5:56 pm » wrote: The OP is a blind reflection of Richard Dawkins'  "Dear Muslima" mistake. Just like it, it is saying, "Sit down and STFU", about guns rather than harassing & worse sexual behavior towards women by men. Like Dawkins' screed, it's **** that should be denigrated. It's also worth bringing up now and again to rub Vegas' nose into his own ****. Don't worry, it's roses to Vegas' nostrils.

Ok. Whatever. Let me know when you have something of substance. 

 
You are too uninformed to comprehend what I wrote. You can't decipher what I said. It was not even something I consider content dense. For that, go read something by Feynman.

A lifetime ago I remember going to my physics professor about a few paragraphs complaining it made no sense, he questioned my background reading, handed me three huge books and said if I read and comprehended them I'd understand what Feynman wrote. (He was correct.) He was telling me, nicely, I was too uninformed to comprehend what I was reading. In the previous paragraph, I told you the same. Not nicely.

That you are so poorly read your response is "whatever" leaves me to know you are not worth a lot of my time, except to ridicule. No homework for you. Lay in your repetitive word vomit.
 

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Phelix_Dacat » 29 Apr 2021, 6:15 pm » wrote: You are too uninformed to comprehend what I wrote. You can't decipher what I said. It was not even something I consider content dense. For that, go read something by Feynman.

A lifetime ago I remember going to my physics professor about a few paragraphs complaining it made no sense, he questioned my background reading, handed me three huge books and said if I read and comprehended them I'd understand what Feynman wrote. (He was correct.) He was telling me, nicely, I was too uninformed to comprehend what I was reading. In the previous paragraph, I told you the same. Not nicely.

That you are so poorly read your response is "whatever" leaves me to know you are not worth a lot of my time, except to ridicule. No homework for you. Lay in your repetitive word vomit.

In short, you are blaming me for not making a point. Look, you started off with sarcasm, so I immediately didn't it take it serious. Come across intelligently, then we can talk.

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Vegasgiants » 29 Apr 2021, 6:17 pm » wrote: If there were one million gun deaths a year then 99.9% of Americans would be safe.  But you feel they would be under threat.  Your math does not follow.  

Its your math.....not mine
So you aren't going to address the .004%? Compare that number with .3%. The 3 is in the tenth place, the 4 is in the thousandths place. When it comes to percentages , the place value matters. A lot. My math is consistent.

Address the .004%. 

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Abatjour » 29 Apr 2021, 5:20 pm » wrote: too huge of a difference in numbers, to trust either source ...  I feel that pbs is a reputable source and I bet you feel that UC-Davis is as well.  Let me know if you feel like doing some data-mining to see which is more accurate
You misread the pbs data.

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Wait a minute @Vegas giants  . Actually, that is a **** stat. .3 %. The drug addiction is 22%. I was thinking 3% in my head, my bad. 

Look, I admitted I **** up. Please don't use that as an excuse. Everyone **** up. I admit it. Now, let's continue. 

In short, I wouldn't consider anything a threat until it starts trending toward 10%. That's 1/10 people. 

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Vegasgiants » 29 Apr 2021, 6:26 pm » wrote: I am.  You claim it is a tiny percentage of Americans so they are not a threat.  I am claiming 0.3% is also a tiny percentage that leaves 99.7% of Americans safe.

Deny that

See my last response. 

"deny that" is immature. Stop.

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Vegas » 29 Apr 2021, 6:21 pm » wrote:
Phelix_Dacat » 29 Apr 2021, 6:15 pm » wrote: You are too uninformed to comprehend what I wrote. You can't decipher what I said. It was not even something I consider content dense. For that, go read something by Feynman.

A lifetime ago I remember going to my physics professor about a few paragraphs complaining it made no sense, he questioned my background reading, handed me three huge books and said if I read and comprehended them I'd understand what Feynman wrote. (He was correct.) He was telling me, nicely, I was too uninformed to comprehend what I was reading. In the previous paragraph, I told you the same. Not nicely.

That you are so poorly read your response is "whatever" leaves me to know you are not worth a lot of my time, except to ridicule. No homework for you. Lay in your repetitive word vomit.
In short, you are blaming me for not making a point. Look, you started off with sarcasm, so I immediately didn't it take it serious. Come across intelligently, then we can talk.
No, I am not blaming you for not making a point. I said outright you are too stupid to understand what you read. Here is the post in question.
Vegas » 29 Apr 2021, 6:01 pm » wrote:
Phelix_Dacat » 29 Apr 2021, 5:56 pm » wrote: The OP is a blind reflection of Richard Dawkins'  "Dear Muslima" mistake. Just like it, it is saying, "Sit down and STFU", about guns rather than harassing & worse sexual behavior towards women by men. Like Dawkins' screed, it's **** that should be denigrated. It's also worth bringing up now and again to rub Vegas' nose into his own ****. Don't worry, it's roses to Vegas' nostrils.
Ok. Whatever. Let me know when you have something of substance.
The first two sentences are The OP is a blind reflection of Richard Dawkins'  "Dear Muslima" mistake. Just like it, it is saying, "Sit down and STFU", about guns rather than harassing & worse sexual behavior towards women by men. There is no sarcasm there since there is no irony contained therein. You should look up the big words you don't know like "and", "but", "the", "sarcasm", etc.

First you strawman. Then you lie. Finally, you "am not, you are" concerning intelligence.

I'd call you a child, except that would be an insult to children.

You are dismissed.
 

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Vegasgiants » 29 Apr 2021, 6:30 pm » wrote: So you dont think gun deaths are a threat until 30 million people a year are dying
I would prefer to study it as the trend increases so it doesn't have to reach that level. If we see a rapid trend growing toward this, then we should nip it asap. As of now, there is no trend. That .004% has been steady for the past 20 years. It hasn't risen. The raw number increases proportionately with the population increase.

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Phelix_Dacat » 29 Apr 2021, 6:31 pm » wrote: No, I am not blaming you for not making a point. I said outright you are too stupid to understand what you read. Here is the post in question.


 
I stopped reading after this. This tells me you don't have the maturity to debate seriously. 

Try again...or not. I could care less.

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Vegasgiants » 29 Apr 2021, 6:33 pm » wrote: Vegas actually just said he needs 30 million a year dead before gun deaths are a threat.

I literally cant believe guys like this exist
They would not listen

They're not listening still

Perhaps they never will

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Vegas » 29 Apr 2021, 6:35 pm » wrote: I stopped reading after this. This tells me you don't have the maturity to debate seriously. 

Try again...or not. I could care less.
I stopped reading after this. 
:rofl:  

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Vegasgiants » 29 Apr 2021, 6:36 pm » wrote: You said 10%.  I didnt put that in your mouth.  You did.  That is more than killed in every war we have ever had combined.......by a mile.  And that is just one year

That is absolutely disgusting

And I said that is alarming. Did I not? Did I not also say we should nip it before that?