Capitlism vs. Free Enterprise

[KiwiPete]

KiwiPete said:

You blame capitalism for this instead of corruption. The judge should have given her a chance to pay for it.

But you do not want to look at reality of what capitalism really is. You just want to look at things like this and blame what is blameless.

Real capitalism is businesses competing with each other on a level playing field that government is supposed to produce. The problem is that nothing is leveled by the Democrats. Businesses are leaving to go to where they get a more level playing field. Keep in mind that a judge is not a business. Therefore that reprehensibly act has nothing to do with Capitalism.

WHY ARE LIBERALS SO
IGNORANT ABOUT CAPITALISM

I know what the free market is, but I don't believe in this pseudo-free market we live in. A true free market capitalist society is one where the state and corporation do not exist, nor nations. What we have now is state-capitalism, fascism, or corporatism.

The political system is a construct of the economic system, as much as it is the ideological beliefs of a nation's members i.e. a judge is employed by the government, not a private company - though the government in turn is influenced heavily by economic or corporate interests. Though communists make no distinction between the state and corporation, arguing both are products or creations of capitalism.

It is curious you think that the state and corporation, can exist in a real free market economy, when state and corporate monopolies are the anti-thesis of a free market system i.e. a free market economy must exist in form of private contracts and small and medium size business to be a real free market.

It is ignorant to defend 'capitalism', when the 'free market capitalism' you are defending is a sham, as it is just a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Better to be a democratic-socialist or a 'liberal' as you term it, if it means not drinking the kool-aid that is neo-liberalism and the false free market.

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

Buy the solar panel made here and it lasts decades. Buy it from China and you're lucky it works at all!
Does China have an UL equivalent? I didn't think so.....

Every solar panel on the American market has UL approval - it's strictly pay to play, son. An American born on the fourth of July and honored as a hero in America's wars is locked out, in favor of pajama wearing Chinese factory workers.

Like you said, son: You didn't think.

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

OMGOSH!!!! Cannonpointer FINALLY realizing that government regulation is used to consolidate corporate power???????

Prepare for the 2nd coming!!!!!!!

I have been distinguishing capitalism from free enterprise for 5 years on these boards. It's nice to see you finally getting it.

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

But you do not want to look at reality of what capitalism really is.

Stop talking to yourself, retard. It's weird.

Real capitalism is businesses competing with each other on a level playing field that government is supposed to produce. The problem is that nothing is leveled by the Democrats.

Queer, the nation went broke under bush, on the heels of 6 years of absolute republican hegemony. Try again, dick-mouth.

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

Can't do it CP. Let me put it to you the way the National Electrical Code put's it to me as an electrical contractor. Every electrical device manufactured in the US, as well as most countries requires them to be "Listed". The definition of listed in the NEC reads as follows:

Article 100: Definitions;

"Equipment, materials, or services included in a list by an organization ( UL, NEMA ) that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with evaluation of products and services, that maintains periodic inspection of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic evaluation of services, and whose listing states that the equipment, material, or services either meets appropriate designated standards or has been tested and found suitable for a specified purpose."

In other words anything I install at a customers home or place of business has to meet UL, or NEMA rated specifications to legally be installed and pass an inspection by the local or state electrical inspector ( Authority having jurisdiction ). If I were to install anything that didn't meet that criteria I can be held civilly, and or criminally liable if something goes wrong. Not to mention lose my Master electricians license, and contractors license. If you want to make your own solar panels and install them on your own property, it may be permitted, but if something goes wrong, your home owners or business property insurance won't pay for any damages that arise.

The NEC is part of NFPA 70 which all fire departments and electrical inspectors go by. They don't want anything electrical manufactured that isn't uniformly built the same way. It applies to every electrical device manufactured, receptacles, switches, motors, fixtures, you name it. And you're right, it makes the competition very stiff when estimating and submitting bids for jobs.

I understand the excuses that accompany the evil. I have NO PROBLEM with standards. It's who creates and enforces them that bothers me. When Wall Street gets to create and enforce the standards, Main Street takes it in the ***.

Tell me, why does our government require private corporations to SET AND ENFORCE standards for government officials to sign off on? The government is forcing every producer of ANYTHING ELECTRICAL to purchase the product of a private corporation.

The conjobs are against this when it involves poor people getting medicine. Where do they stand when Americans are getting **** out of work in favor of Chinese factories?

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

Can't somebody just make the panels themselves? Don't people do that all the time? Does UL have a requirement to be involved? It becomes and issue when you try to sell stuff to others.

**** Americans out of jobs is sort of my main complaint.

And conjob jurisdictions are now starting to outlaw off-grid housing. http://www.collective-evolution.com/201 ... city-grid/ And no grid will allow solar panels to connect unless they are UL approved. So, yeah - you can build them - you just can't use them.

The taxes incurred are first and foremost.
The guise for other restrictions has to be public safety.
Then comes the fraud and restitution, the crooked side.

The order listed is important only for the first item. Everything else is tied at a distant second. UL seems too cozy with the gov. and Wall St. after all these years.

Jus' sayin'

There ain't no "cozy" to it. They are a gate keeper against free enterprise, **** Americans out of jobs - full stop. At the price at which we can produce solar panels, China cannot afford the shipping. We could TRANSFORM our electrical conversation, and cut our carbon foot print by a full 2.53 **** loads.

This is one proof among many of the real battle ground for America's soul: CAPITALISM VS. FREE ENTERPRISE. The fate of our nation rides on the outcome. Anyone with children needs to pick a **** side.

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

WTF are you talking about? i need dick like puppies need love.

It is clear that homosexuals cannot read. Your mother is a filthy whore, and you are a queer.

[Truthwarrior757]

Truthwarrior757 said:

It is clear that homosexuals cannot read. Your mother is a filthy whore, and you are a queer.

Your the homo here loser

[skews13]

skews13 said:

I understand the excuses that accompany the evil. I have NO PROBLEM with standards. It's who creates and enforces them that bothers me. When Wall Street gets to create and enforce the standards, Main Street takes it in the ***.

Tell me, why does our government require private corporations to SET AND ENFORCE standards for government officials to sign off on? The government is forcing every producer of ANYTHING ELECTRICAL to purchase the product of a private corporation.

The conjobs are against this when it involves poor people getting medicine. Where do they stand when Americans are getting **** out of work in favor of Chinese factories?

I'm with you man. One of the groups you can thank for it is the real estate lobby. another are home owners associations, not to mention mortgage lenders, and insurance companies. Which as a small business owner how the hell anyone on this board can side with any of them. But, if the materials you use to build the panels are listed, you can assemble them yourself and sell them. If you are an inventor and have a patent, you can submit an application yourself, with a sample to UL, and if approved, can sell the product to suppliers for distribution. If it's affordable, and a quality product, electrical contractors who install PV as part of their business could make you very rich, very fast. It sounds like you have plan. Run with it.

[littlehawk12]

littlehawk12 said:

Every solar panel on the American market has UL approval - it's strictly pay to play, son. An American born n the fourth of July and honored as a hero in America's wars in locked out, in favor of pajama wearing Chinese factory workers.

Like you said, son: You didn't think.

Here is an excellent source. This guy teaches you how to build efficient quality solar panels at home.

https://power4patriots.com/index.phpI
Power4Patriots is a simple, step-by-step system that slashes your power bill, freeing you forever from slavery to utility monopolies so you can protect your home and family no matter what happens.

[shintao]

shintao said:

You're a **** idiot!!!

Hmm, he seems pretty intelligent to me. You on the other hand have just displayed your ignorance of what a person who is an idiot, really is. In fact, you have just shown us that you have behavioral issues with your sex life, somehow getting sex mixed up with an idiotic assumption, of which you are incapable of analyzing. Perhaps a college education in this late stage in life could make you qualified to make such calls, but then you wouldn't be calling him an idiot at that point, but an intelligent person you disagree with.

I recommend you stick to debating the issue with your own opinion or just shutting that pie hole of yours.

[shintao]

shintao said:

Here is an excellent source. This guy teaches you how to build efficient quality solar panels at home.

https://power4patriots.com/index.phpI
Power4Patriots is a simple, step-by-step system that slashes your power bill, freeing you forever from slavery to utility monopolies so you can protect your home and family no matter what happens.

That is great, if you are 30 years old, have a garage full of tools, and the money to pay cash for the materials, and climb your roof to install the units. Buying a solar panel kind of eliminates the need of any of those things, so the 90 year old grandma can get them installed on the roof for her house on a loan. Most men can't check the oil in their car or change a tire, so you are talking about a limited number of people who could even find the video, concentrate on what it says, get the parts gathered, etc.

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

I'm with you man. One of the groups you can thank for it is the real estate lobby. another are home owners associations, not to mention mortgage lenders, and insurance companies. Which as a small business owner how the hell anyone on this board can side with any of them. But, if the materials you use to build the panels are listed, you can assemble them yourself and sell them. If you are an inventor and have a patent, you can submit an application yourself, with a sample to UL, and if approved, can sell the product to suppliers for distribution. If it's affordable, and a quality product, electrical contractors who install PV as part of their business could make you very rich, very fast. It sounds like you have plan. Run with it.

Let us recap: The panels have 200 bucks worth of materials and a day's labor. They sell for 14 thousand dollars.

I can certainly see a soft spot between 400 bucks and 14,000 bucks - but I have no plan whatsoever to go after it. I was not born yesterday. Underwriters Laboratory, as I said before, is a Wall Street gate keeper protecting those profits. There are millions of handy Americans with access to this information. The math is the math. The politics are the politics. The law is the law.

Wall Street is Wall Street. Capitalism is capitalism. Free enterprise is free enterprise. I have explained how this works. There is no home for me or any other free enterpriser, between the 400 and the 14 thousand. That's a chimera.

[Nubber]

Nubber said:

OH GOODY!!!! ANOTHER CONSPIRACY THEORY!!!!!!

Lets have the facts to back up this theory. Do you have the under the table payoffs for this or is there other credible methods of the transactions????? How do they give the laws to be created to the people in congress. How deep does this go to be able have all of the needed congressmen to be able vote for these laws????? How long has this been going on??????? All the way back to the Constitutional Convention or later??????? Facts and more facts please!!!!!!!!

1: Have you ever heard of a lobbyist?

2: So you will understand I will use the following example-Solyndra.

As long as there have been regulations to enforce, there have been people manipulating them.

[shintao]

shintao said: I used to have a manufacturing business, and when I set it up in this two story warehouse, the city thought it would be a good idea to have a sprinkler system. So I have an uncle with a general contracting license and hired him to install it, and that way I could do the labor. Nope the city said, you have to have one of these two local fire extinguisher company's install the system. So I did a little investigation and found out both companies were owned by the same guy.

[littlehawk12]

littlehawk12 said:

That is great, if you are 30 years old, have a garage full of tools, and the money to pay cash for the materials, and climb your roof to install the units. Buying a solar panel kind of eliminates the need of any of those things, so the 90 year old grandma can get them installed on the roof for her house on a loan. Most men can't check the oil in their car or change a tire, so you are talking about a limited number of people who could even find the video, concentrate on what it says, get the parts gathered, etc.

Speak for yourself, and the guys you run with. Myself, and most of the guys I know are very capable, and handy with just about any tool. But hey, we are Alaskans. Use to depending on ourselves.

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

That is great, if you are 30 years old, have a garage full of tools, and the money to pay cash for the materials, and climb your roof to install the units. Buying a solar panel kind of eliminates the need of any of those things, so the 90 year old grandma can get them installed on the roof for her house on a loan. Most men can't check the oil in their car or change a tire, so you are talking about a limited number of people who could even find the video, concentrate on what it says, get the parts gathered, etc.

Many are less handy than in previous generations, but there are millions of men in America who CAN do that. The assembly is labor intensive, but far from insurmountable. The start up costs are negligible, beside the potential profits. A man could easily make a living in the top 5% of earners with a start up investment of a few thousands, perhaps even several hundreds.

But the ground between 400 bucks in COGS and a (theoretical, manipulated, artificial) potential sale price of 14,000, is protected turf. It belongs to Wall Street, protected by UL and the government gun. Not only is it disallowed to introduce non-UL to the grid, but it is becoming unlawful to live OFF grid, so that even if one were situated and inclined to capture the efficiency ONLY FOR ONE'S SELF, one would catch a bullet for one's efforts.

[Cannonpointer]

Cannonpointer said:

I used to have a manufacturing business, and when I set it up in this two story warehouse, the city thought it would be a good idea to have a sprinkler system. So I have an uncle with a general contracting license and hired him to install it, and that way I could do the labor. Nope the city said, you have to have one of these two local fire extinguisher company's install the system. So I did a little investigation and found out both companies were owned by the same guy.

Now, magnify that to the federal level, which is a thousand times less answerable. You could conceivably have hired a lawyer and filed suit, gotten discovery and successfully sued the city. Or, conceivably, you could have gotten the feds to go after these guys - with that much money on the table, other interests are at stake. After all, there are just a few crooks involved in what you described. Even if they are well connected at the state level, if they go down, the world keeps turning with no serious bruising.

That does not make local corruption a GOOD thing, but it makes it a tad less insurmountable than entrenched interests on Wall Street protected by the Underwriters Laboratory as a first ring of defense. The type of corruption you are pointing to is with us, has always been, will always be. People, like water, take the path of least resistance - that's why we have crooked rivers and crooked people. The type I am trying to expose in this thread was overthrown in 1776, and did not creep back in until the railroads needed building.

Capitalism is straight up KILLING free enterprise - making it against the law.

[littlehawk12]

littlehawk12 said:

Many are less handy than in previous generations, but there are millions of men in America who CAN do that. The assembly is labor intensive, but far from insurmountable. The start up costs are negligible, beside the potential profits. A man could easily make a living in the top 5% of earners with a start up investment of a few thousands, perhaps even several hundreds.

But the ground between 400 bucks in COGS and a (theoretical, manipulated, artificial) potential sale price of 14,000, is protected turf. It belongs to Wall Street, protected by UL and the government gun. Not only is it disallowed to introduce non-UL to the grid, but it is becoming unlawful to live OFF grid, so that even if one were situated and inclined to capture the efficiency ONLY FOR ONE'S SELF, one would catch a bullet for one's efforts.

There's got to be a loop hole. couldn't you sell the kits, and then contract your labor too put them together, and install them?

[skews13]

skews13 said:

Let us recap: The panels have 200 bucks worth of materials and a day's labor. They sell for 14 thousand dollars.

I can certainly see a soft spot between 400 bucks and 14,000 bucks - but I have no plan whatsoever to go after it. I was not born yesterday. Underwriters Laboratory, as I said before, is a Wall Street gate keeper protecting those profits. There are millions of handy Americans with access to this information. The math is the math. The politics are the politics. The law is the law.

Wall Street is Wall Street. Capitalism is capitalism. Free enterprise is free enterprise. I have explained how this works. There is no home for me or any other free enterpriser, between the 400 and the 14 thousand. That's a chimera.

The current costs for installation of PV varies per watt depending upon your location. If you can come in under that, you've got a gig. Of course this also requires the proper license and insurance. I suggest you build the panels yourself, and team up with an electrical contractor in your state to install them. Here's a good guideline to determine your coast, and what you could realistically charge to be competitive.

http://solarpowerauthority.com/how-much ... -us-house/